Age :39
Group: Member
Location: Czech Republic
Did spend a lot of time playing QW and developing ezQuake back in the day.
Guides  /  5 Oct 2007, 17:26
Color Forcing, Spawn Modes, Rules
Today we have summed up the discussion under my last blog entry, I have made some jobs in QW Wiki too: Color Forcing and Spawn modes.
I think Color Forcing and Spawn Modes are topics that most players do not know much about. Before you open the Spawn modes wiki page, try to guess how many spawn modes there are in QuakeWorld :-)

There is a table listing pros and cons of different spawn modes. It shows that there isn't any "perfect" spawn mode in QW.
Also the table shows that KTPro Spawn and KTX Respawns can be considered the best available spawn modes. In the comments, please let me know what is your attitude towards this issue:
Quote:
ASP - Avoid Spawn Points: when moving across the map you have to avoid spawn points because you can get spawn-telefragged
Comments
2007-10-05, 19:44
512 = Disable color forcing ftw then
2007-10-05, 20:19
i think ktx spawns is the best of these modes. When comparing em to each other
2007-10-05, 20:54
i see you've got my screenshot!
2007-10-05, 20:56
actually i can even relate to the text part of that qizmo color forcing stuff..

i tried to do something similar, yours is much better though!

http://gorilla.pp.fi/qizmo/

(sassa don't blame me for not doing anything! when did you write a how-to-do?)
2007-10-05, 20:58
how do i delete posts?
2007-10-05, 21:00
I can delete them for you, just say which numbers.
2007-10-05, 21:00
Yes I've borrowed all the text and screenshots from your site. Hope it's not a problem...
2007-10-05, 23:39
My spawn algorithm suggestion:
1) choose random spawn point, add player to the spawn queue on that spawn point
2) for player on the top of the queue
a) spawn is free: spawn there
b) spawn is occupied: wait until it's free but max 1 second
2007-10-06, 07:51
Why would we like to get rid of spawnfragging?
2007-10-06, 08:01
because it involve less luck that way. this wouldn't remove spawnfrags, just make them less frequent.
2007-10-06, 08:37
Because I hate kissing the wall in dm2-tele, it's easy to move there without being telefragged, it's just annoying. I also hate slowing down my quadrun in dm3 sng-tele area. Again it's easy to move there without being telefragged, but it's just annoying.
2007-10-06, 09:32
1) choose a random spawn point, that is not the same as last time you spawned, using some sort of algorithm where it will be less probable (but not by very much) to spawn near an enemy
2) spawn there

DON'T WALK ON SPAWNS! (that is a skill)
2007-10-06, 11:08
Don't agree on #12 (seriously, I will delete posts like #13 in future)

Spawns are not even visible in dm3, in dm2 there is a small block on the ground on most places (like 50% of spawns) so you know where you should avoid it. But avoiding something that you cannot see and that can kill you anytime ... doh

Edited by JohnNy_cz on 06 Oct 07 @ 12:09CET
2007-10-06, 12:03
Yea, and?
2007-10-06, 12:19
annoying spawn frags are part of this game so leave it
2007-10-06, 12:58
Interceptor wrote:
because it involve less luck that way.

If luck is a reason for coming up with a new ├╝ber spawn mode then i'm not quite sure it's necessary. Then there are so much more stuff that would have to be looked at too, like fullstarts in 4on4 for example?

I do think that it would be good to agree on one spawn mode to use as a standard though, so we know what we play with. I definitely didn't know what all the spawn modes did until i read the wiki entry. Now i won't just go "ok" without knowing shit when i see someone change the spawn settings .5 secs before he goes ready.

Good job!
2007-10-06, 13:06
why not Ake? Lets say two player duel, first spawn is in favor of one of the player and that player gets the first kill. Then he gets lucky and get 15 spawn frags because there are no safety for that. The game would be over because of luck and not skill. Wouldn't it then be a good idea to have something that would lessen the chance of that happening? That would remove some of the luck involved with random spawns.
2007-10-06, 13:46
Ake Vader: Yeah, one and for all. I'll ask qqshka to give me more details on how KTX Respawns work, I have some uncertainities... I'll add that to wiki ofc.
2007-10-06, 16:10
I consider #8 (KTX w/o the avoid issue?) as the best method.
2007-10-06, 21:18
most players don't slow down on dm3 sng area. they just accept the odds. i don't really like the fact that since one good quad run can change the match result and since one spawnfrag can ruin your quadrun and give away your rl: one lucky telefrag changes the outcome.. sure one sg hit can do the same thing.

i really like the timer idea.. if you stand on the top of teleport you'll get telefragged.. today i just bunnied with speed over 600 (got some sg boost) on e1m2 nail area and got telefragged, i had quad, rl and ya. the other team won the match.
2007-10-06, 21:27
PEKTOPAHKY> dont walk on spawns, its a skill.
2007-10-06, 23:04
It's barely a skill, because you cannot improved it anyhow. You either walk on spawns or do not. You can improve your rl aim skill, you can improve your lg aim skill, you can learn teamplay tactics as your skill, you can infinitely improve your movement, ...

To learn to avoid spawns is not a skill, you just have to learn where they are and learn to think about it, which is too trivial job to be considered a "skill".
2007-10-07, 11:18
it IS a skill to be able to avoid spawns and still keep up speed and not let fear of telefrag get in the way of playing well..
Just because some people dont want/can learn this doesnt mean others cant or wont learn..
so yeah, skill baby =)
2007-10-07, 14:45
Some spawn points just aren't avoidable and on such spawn points your so caalled avoidance skill become a mere lottery.
2007-10-07, 15:58
pattah: please name all these spawn points on the most common played maps.
2007-10-07, 21:46
he cant avoid because he doesnt know where they are =)
2007-10-08, 08:16
Inter, what about all the times when you want to spawn close to where you died or enemy? This happens quite a lot in 4on4, wanting to spawn your own or enemy's dropped weapon or spawn there to finish off some rl guy you got really low. Or simply continue in that general area because you know a weapon / powerups is coming.

I would want to take out spawnfrags at the beginning of the round. Can give frag and start advantage and serves no purpose as you can't avoid it.

I would also like to see the spots on all maps where exactly someone can spawn, not to see them ingame but in some mode. Most spots you know pretty 100%, but some are still not clear ( at least to me) and I would rather not spend time trying to test it out

I also think that dm2 lowrl corner spawn has some kind of tractorbeam on it, catching a lot of flies, bzzzzt
2007-10-08, 10:48
I am opposed to randomness where it can be avoided; there is enough randomness in the game already. For one thing, random spawn order seems absolutely necessary if you don't want to end up with NQ style total maplock in duels.

I don't play much TDM, but random telefrags have been a major source of annoyance for me in FFA ever since quake.msk.ru:27500 was upgraded to KTX with the no-mercy spawnfrags.

It's one thing when you are telefragged by a skilled player who timed your approach carefully. Or squished on dm2. When that happens, it inevitably results in an exchange of smilies between the parties: we all like good game.

Now random spawnfrags are a totally different thing. In some cases they are easy to avoided. In other cases you can avoid them but overall it's not worth the effort and you just take your chances. And there are some spawns you just can't avoid, like ra on aerowalk. And when I get telefragged on these, it's nothing but bad feelings.

Whether you play for fun or for the win, ultimately it's all about fun, isn't it? My vote is on preserving the fun.
2007-10-08, 14:47
inter: Like Tonik already mentioned, the RA/GA on Aerowalk as an example. That "some" was really meant as some--consider it few, if you want to.
2007-10-08, 16:26
niomic: im well aware of that. ignore what i said about 'using some sort of algorithm where it will be less probable (but not by very much) to spawn near an enemy' then. im still for none delay spawning.

pattah: thats one. and one thats not imo a big deal since aerowalk is mainly a 1on1 map, and how often do u kill an enemy and still be standing on ra? Killing an enemy and then make sure you are not on a spawn till u know that he respawned is also a skill.
2007-10-08, 16:55
As for the "I want see exact spawn position", I requested it in KTX months ago and they've implemented it already.
2007-10-08, 17:41
inter: RA and GA. Anyway, Aerowalk is played FFA a lot too and it becomes a bigger deal then. Maybe safe spawn points should only be enabled in certain modes? At least it cannot harm to have a proper "safety mode" available for certain match types.
2007-10-08, 18:43
Spawn safety makes perfect sense in FFA in my opinion and not many people would argue about it.
2008-01-22, 10:57
the-interceptor: "pattah: please name all these spawn points on the most common played maps."

YA-spawn on dm4.
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