Group: Administrator
Location: Sweden
Started playing Quake TDM in 1997.

Creator of eQuake, fQuake and nQuake.
Maps  /  22 Feb 2012, 14:32
Again with the GPL maps
I tried adding the GPL maps to nQuake and join some servers. It didn't work. The maps didn't match up with the servers'.
I read the old discussion about GPL maps today and the arguments against GPL maps there didn't really seem that difficult to overcome.

1. Alright, let's take the sources, compile them and we have free .bsp

No problem, we don't need textures in the .bsp files. People either use 24-bit textures or drawflat.

2. That's easy - take textures from the original maps, everybody does that when creating a custom map anyway

As in (1) this won't be needed. It's just bloat anyway that extends the nQuake installation.

3. That's truly sad. But we still have Quake Retexturing Project, so at least we can use their textures?

Already doing this, so of course we can keep doing it.

4. Oh right, so we are doomed, backup plan failed? We simply can't use anything we have?


The article claims that we have already solved the problem with the server recognizing the GPL maps and allowing the client to connect. But it apparently didn't make its way to mainstream.

Take care of that, and I'll take care of removing the pak1.pak requirements from nQuake, allowing anyone to start playing QuakeWorld without having to ask for help finding warez.

Thanks for reading.
2012-02-22, 15:07
Me and Tonik was working on a new set of GPL maps, thats actually why he added support for the current set. Last time we talked status was that he was working on a better coloring algorithm.

We should finish that set and include it with nQuake
2012-02-22, 15:09
Great news Zalon

I hope we can get this done (nquake - ezquake - mvdsv - servers across the globe) before the summer is over...
2012-02-22, 15:30
Maybe I'm missing something, but aren't GPL maps useless to replace the original bsp, simply because when you generate bsp from a .map file it is not guaranteed to be identical, depending on what bsp/vis/etc apps you use? And, therefore, it will fail the bsp check even if the .map file is the same as before?
2012-02-22, 16:21
Compile bsps and say "these are the official bsps", and the crc will stay the same, right? Then we only need to add server support, so it recognizes two different bsps (i.e. the original bsp and the GPL bsp) as the same valid map. Remember back in the days without crc check? You could remove the water from the maps and it would still play just fine (with the added ability of seeing static objects under water).
2012-02-22, 21:59
Afaik, Tonik made it so that ezQuake can use his maps even on old servers.
2012-02-22, 22:07

empezar is back?!?! =) =)
2012-02-23, 05:51
Zalon, where can I get his maps? I downloaded the ones linked in the article.
2012-02-23, 05:51
Mushi, with a vengeance!
2012-02-23, 08:35
Tonik's commit message says "The CRC table contains AquaShark's dm1..dm6"
2012-02-23, 08:37
Also, please make sure single player maps are not playable in single player. What would be ideal would be to exclude single player maps completely. Id software wants to sell Quake 1 single player, so let them sell it.
2012-02-23, 11:07
Will be hard to remove e1m2 from those who want to play 4on4.
2012-02-23, 11:37
e1m2 is already in pak0, that is why only dm1-dm6 was added - For the same reason as what JohnNy_cz said.

Emp, as I said before "Last time we talked status was that he was working on a better coloring algorithm." - So you can't get his maps atm.
2012-02-23, 12:05
What use is it anyways? You will always need to require pak1.pak or you are in violation of the shareware license. Would be nice if SLICNSE.TXT and LICINFO.TXT were not deleted by the installer.
2012-02-23, 12:19
You mean the fact that shareware should not be redistributed in any other form than the Quake shareware version of the game? What if you repackage those files yourself on your own machine? That is probably alright, you should be able to do whatever you want with any files on your PC (not sure about DMCA in US tho). What if you download a tool that does this repackaging for you automatically? Is that what you're pointing at? Just asking...
2012-02-23, 12:47
Nope, but that you must not use the shareware to create derivate works or however you say that.

Check out the two files I mentioned above. Eg from LICINFO.TXT:
CANNOT DO: Run the game with user developed levels.

Saying this assuming that the goal is to have a sharewase-based QuakeWorld with no need for pak1.pak.

If I recall correctly Baker investigated into this and is shareware clients on shareware servers. I am not sure how it can be CTF though. Maybe it is not legal after all.
2012-02-23, 14:00
It's legal enough for me.
2012-02-23, 14:02
Maybe you can find something better? Because this (IMO idiotic) sentence makes criminals out of the end-users who dare to use the software for something else than it has been intended for... It's like saying "CANNOT DO: breathe while playing" ... I mean, WTF? Anyway, IANAL.
2012-02-23, 14:12
Well, then why care at all?
2012-02-23, 14:40
I like common sense. Common sense tells me this is OK and that Id won't care even if someone contacted them.
2012-02-23, 14:42
The license made sense 16 years ago. It stopped making sense about 10 years ago.
2012-02-23, 14:58
#18: Because there is a difference between distributing pirated content, and trying to comply with some lawyer's crazy wishes, which are not applicable in any reasonable law system?
#19: On the other hand nQuake should make sure the public won't point at it with *boo, warez*, even if it's not true, such publicity won't help.
2012-02-23, 15:22
Including textureless maps that were built from source files released by John Romero can't be frowned upon. It just can't. Also, the license says we can't RUN the game with custom content. Fine. NQuake doesn't run the game. The end-user does.

Edited by empezar on 23 Feb 12 @ 16:23CET
2012-02-23, 18:48
By what Spirit says, nQuake is already breaking the shareware license - Yet we have from id's community manager that nQuake is ok.

The downloading and unpacking thing worked for debian, who if I recall is the most hardcore of GPL zealots.
2012-02-23, 20:42
Copyrights and stuff are stupid.

I am just trying to help spreading what I think to know (which might include FUD sadly).
2012-02-24, 14:39
read the gnu gpl
2012-02-24, 16:13
#25 Why? Have we missed something? In regards to nQuake, the GNU GPL can (afaik) be summarized with a short sentence: "Do not mix GPL with non-GPL stuff." - and we're not doing that with nQuake.
2012-02-24, 16:46
well, you can't use the source files ? and if you could, yes the numbers wont match up with the original if you compile it. and taking the source and removing the textures is like taking original texture and removing the colors making it grey. no ?

what you can do is to start playing custom maps instead
2012-02-24, 16:51
Yes, we can use the source files. nQuake already has a lot of GPL material included, adding some more won't be a problem. Yes, we can get around that it has a different CRC, as has been said numerous times in the comments. No, removing textures is not like coloring the original textures gray. As long as the bsp files doesn't have the original textures included with them, they are fine. We can use the 24-bit QRP textures (which are in themselves OK) to make the maps pretty without the original textures.
2012-02-28, 11:43
well, as for 1), i do not use 24bit nor drawflat. I like how quake looks as it is
2012-02-28, 11:49
argh, i think i got it all wrong, need to read up
2012-02-29, 02:24
"I tried adding the GPL maps to nQuake and join some servers. It didn't work. The maps didn't match up with the servers'. "

Dunno, tested just now. Removed dm6 from my quake (from pak1.pak), downloaded this Exatracted files, dm maps for some reason have gpl_ prefixes. Renamed gpl_dm6.bsp to dm6.bsp (fake maps should have same names as original). Put it in maps dir. Connected to few servers, voted dm6, it just works, so what the problem? No need to support from server, just ezquake from 6 Sep 2010.

There was added support for gpl maps in mvdsv as well, but it required _only_ if you wish to run server without pak1.pak but with gpl maps.

Probably I miss something.
2012-02-29, 06:16
Take QRP textures, resize them to the original Quake texture resolutions, downsample them to 8bit, include them in the GPL maps.

What's the problem with that? To quote a wise man, probably I miss something.
2012-02-29, 09:50
Up2nOgOoD[ROCK], including downsampled QRP textures will mean mixing GPL and proprietary content in the same file and it's not the right thing to do. (I know there is no agreement on whether QRP textures can be considered GPL compatible; I prefer to err on the safe side here.)

One of the reasons this whole GPL map thing got stuck in its tracks is the lits. Unfortunately the existing .lit files won't work with GPL maps because we don't know how to compile the maps in a way compatible with the originals (it would take a really smart guy to figure out how).

Now simply compiling a bunch of new incompatible lits and throwing them out there simply doesn't work. They will inevitably be confused with vanilla lits, creating lots of frustrated users who can't understand why colored lighting won't work.

As a solution to the lit problem I developed BSPX: . It is a way to integrate colored lighting into a bsp file so that they two are always distributed as a single package and there's no chance of confusion.

I also ended up giving a shake-up to the mhlight tool in order to produce colored lighting that doesn't suck as much.

So, all technical issues have been solved by now. All you need is take a set of maps, agree to designate them as final, compile in the colored lighting and put the CRCs into ezquake and mvdsv.

I do believe AquaShark style maps (with flat textures) are the way to go. But I remember taking issue with some of the colors used in some of the maps. I never liked half-assed jobs, and I believe if we want to release this and we want it to be successful, we'd better make people *want* to use the maps even *without* external textures.

So I'd like someone with a taste to go through AquaShark's maps and edit the texture colors to make the maps look really sexy. I don't know what colors. Experiment. You'll know you're on the right path when players take a look and say "wow I want that".
2012-02-29, 18:45
Ok guys, i can take the source files, remake them a little (add more detail, make them look nice) and i can also add colored lights all over the map, and add custom textures. Then remove original maps from servers and add the new ones.
2012-02-29, 18:47
and if i do that you dont have to use texture colors, as imo it doesnt't look good. And if i do the lighting in the source files i can add colored lights wherever i want, so then i can make an ambient colored light over the map.
2012-03-01, 00:55
uh Muff1n, I'm afraid I was talking about something much more limited in scope. I want maps with flat textures like in AquaShark's maps (have you seen them), just with more careful texture color choice. I believe he used an automatic algorithm to assign the colors (averaging over the entire texture), and it doesn't always look good. Or am I being picky? Go on, download them and take a look around.

Adding more detail sounds nice but won't work in practice because we want the physics (both player and projectile) to stay exactly the same, or players will cry "gameplay chagne".
2012-03-01, 18:28
well they will, i wont change that, or if its that picky i can just change textures and add colored lighting over the map
2012-03-01, 18:30
an no sorry have not seen them, where can i dl them?
2012-03-05, 11:35 , but it doesn't work for me right now
2012-03-18, 11:34
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