Age :44
Group: Moderator
Location: Funland
Activity killed the cat?
Games  /  11 Jun 2008, 17:57
Fair play? Part #2
Yet again I'm writing here about players and their actions. Earlier today I got msgd about actions of players on a public server and it got to me quite a bit.
There was a player who wanted to play some mix on WG but he was kicked out just because he wasn't "good enough" (no shitacting involved). This obviously was quite a shock for the player himself and to some other people who mentioned about it to me.

As I've stated earlier, the servers I admin are meant for EVERYONE as they are PUBLIC. This means that a player who wants to play, gets to play. There are no exceptions to this unless someone is shitacting and preventing the game from starting.

Now about the kicking the player out. Do you really think you can afford to kick players who want to play out of the server just because they are worse players than you are? It's not that the scene is growing anymore but quite the opposite. Even if there are new players or bad players, where can they get their games if they can't play in A MIX because some l337 pr0s decide so? Also what makes you so important that you decide who can play and who can't? Is it a privilege for div1 players to play mixeds and others can go to hell?

After playing for 10 years you'd thought you can lose one or two rounds in a mix with someone worse player than you to make that guy stay in the scene and continue playing in the future. If you're not satisfied with the teams then try to make them more even or better yet, use /disconnect to get your huge ego off there and make room for someone else who wants to play, whoever the other players are.

Bottom line: If you think you can afford to kick worse players out of mixeds, then I'm sure you can afford to lose the server too. If a player who wants to play isn't allowed to play on a server that's public and meant for everyone, then why to keep the server running at all.
2008-06-11, 18:52
Such complete idiots.
2008-06-12, 00:01
totally agreed
2008-06-12, 08:12
To be honest I'm more shocked that this is news to you at all, but I guess it's because you don't play much mix 4on4 yourself.
Anyway, I do agree with pretty much everything you've written; what's the point of trying to build a "newbie friendly" community/client/environment if those new players eventually aren't allowed to participate in the games? I witness people saying "player-xy spec!" based on people's performances almost on a daily basis. As we all know, one of the main reasons why rookies stop playing QuakeWorld again is because "everyone" else has already been playing for years and the learning curve is simply discouraging.
Whining about QuakeWorld dying while denying others the right to participate in a fucking mixgame - smooth move!

To be fair though, there is a hypocritical line I draw myself. Not too long ago I actually recommended to a player to go play FFA instead of mix 4on4 because he was new to QW, didn't even have enemy/team skins/messages and was shooting mates constantly. We ended up having to /break the game due to this. Now in a perfect world I would have sent him skins, told him where to get good team messages, and helped him set up his client. But hey, everyone has their ego-moments where they "just want to play". :/
2008-06-12, 12:09
soma wrote:
To be honest I'm more shocked that this is news to you at all, but I guess it's because you don't play much mix 4on4 yourself.

It's not actually news or anything new. I've seen it happen before but usually the one being punished is more or less of an annoyance or doing something he's not supposed to.

Now what really struck me was that people ACTUALLY reported this thing to me. It means someone couldn't just watch and do nothing about it.

In the future if you see one of the following people in the server, you can express your worries to them as they have admin privileges on those servers I admin:

Fucu, Scenic, Interceptor and Sassa.

I'm sure they know what to do on certain situations, whether it's abuse or some other random shitacting. If you feel they abuse their rights then attach screenshot or log of it and send email to me (/serverinfo or /motd gives the email address).
2008-06-12, 12:31
The players that shitact like this should be slapped around a bit!!
2008-06-12, 14:05
/me slaps sassa around a bit with a large trout
2008-06-12, 14:16
Maybe someone should put up a guide, step by step for a rookie to get into 4on4-gaming.

Like mentioned about skins, how to team up, what commands are useful (ready, break, rpickup, elect, and so on), and do it step by step to finally send them to the 4on4-rookieguide written by UI (really nice work there btw).

Final step: Look for spam about mixes.
2008-06-12, 14:53
maybe the most hated thing in QW for me. however I also often find people who stand by me or by other rookie in a mix. I also understand that sometimes people would like to play on higher level even if their whole clan is not online atm so they would like to schedule a mix just with heavy guys if it is possible. and in this case they wouldn't like if a rookie join to the match. I understand that so always go out to spec if somebody request it.
And often ask higher div players to tell me and teach me things. but sometimes this also can be disturbing for a high div player if the news spread out between rookies that "hey, XY is a very helpful guy, just ask him about this or that and he will help for u" and all the rookies will disturb him. in a "perfect world" ( after some ) a high div player just pick up some rookies as his wards and teach him/they if he has time for the rookie(s). oh, what a dream :'(
2008-06-12, 18:23
you tried quakeworld and you failed miserably, lesson is never try!
2008-06-13, 03:11
When I started playing in Europe about a year ago and was extremely rusty yet not entirely incompetent (I think...) there were quite a few times where it was suggested that I spec rather than play. Had I been completely new to the game I suspect this would have driven me away.

I don't think that QW necessarily has the best attitude towards new players at times. And then sometimes it does. Possibly because to generalise an entire community based on the actions of a few is rather flawed.
2008-06-13, 12:35
I'm not the best quakeworlder in the world, as anyone who was watching that prac yesterday will attest ;/, but my experience of playing mixes has been largely positive.

For every guy who asks me to get off the server because I suck, or stops playing for 30 seconds to CAPSLOCK me in mm1 for taking an RA, there are 3 more who will invite me on to a mix when I'm speccing and tell me that my skill level doesn't matter because, "Hey, it's only a mix game; It's not like we're playing for money".

In that regard, my experience of playing qw has been largely positive. Every game is going to have the 'tards that think they own the servers, or the ones that loudly proclaim "LOL 4ON3" whenever they go 3 frags down in a mix, but most qw players are decent people.

Like Soma said earlier, you're not always going to have the patience to help someone set up skins or teambinds when you're deep in a 3-hour mix session on wargamez, and some newbie comes on and starts teamkilling everyone, but you could at least politely point out his error and direct him to nQuake.

tl;dr: It's just a game, there's no need to be a jerk. Most people aren't.
2008-06-15, 17:34
this is a recurring theme

it would be nice to keep a track of who exactly is doing the kicking (and who are voting them as admins in order to kick)
2008-06-17, 12:02
Why not give admin privileges to ppl who are not pros ?
I have never ever seen anyone do anything when u get kicked out of a server just because u played bad or sucked.
2008-06-17, 14:00
One has to trust the person who will get his VIP because in the end, real-admin can do lots of bad things too (setting permanent bans, kicking out of the blue and so on).

And for the latter thing, there's a really simple explanation: it's easier to do nothing than to make a stand for something you might believe or feel that is wrong. It really requires a strong character and integrity to be the one on the weaker person's side.
2008-06-17, 23:01
I dont get it.
I dont think qwskill is a factor when it comes to trust.
If i was u i would give admin to someone u trusted and played alot of mix or 2on2.
Not sassa and interceptor they never play mix 2on2 what ive seen.
maybe 4on4. fucu ive seen alot though.
but his never on the swedish servers to play what ive seen.
2008-06-18, 00:25
bloodninja wrote:
I dont get it.
I dont think qwskill is a factor when it comes to trust.

Skill has nothing to do with it.

Trust is to be earned during years of social relations or even by knowing someone IRL for long enough time. The people I mentioned are such, I've talked to them long enough to have a positive conception and that I can trust them... well at least partially.

I have had abusing admins in the past and I've gotten a lot of negative feedback on their actions and I had to take action of my own. I'm not willing to go for that the second time, once was more than enough.
2008-06-18, 12:14
I dont see the reason to have admins that dont play alot of quake mix that is.
Always problems in mix games
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