Zalon  /  29 Apr 2008, 08:00
EQL Statement
To follow up on the recent rumors of an upcoming EQL season, the EQL crew has issued a statement regarding the 7th edition of the European QuakeWorld League.
EQL wrote:
Hello fellow Quakers!

Here is a list of changes and some explanations that comes with EQL Season 7 - Summer!

Admins: Bps, Itsinen, Nas, Pleuraxeraphim, Trashie, Zalon.

The first and biggest change is that EQL7 is actually now both a 2on2 and 4on4 league.
These leagues work parallel playerwise, which means that only players from the 4on4 team can play the 2on2 games... and ANY player from the team can play the 2on2s, so it's not restricted to 2 players only anymore (like most leagues has been)! There might be some conflicts within the teams of who should play, but there should be enough players at least. The divisions and opponents will also be the same in the 2on2 as in the 4on4 league.


A new thing for this season is also that ALL division has tb5.
This is because we respect kenya tourneys at summer time and since cmt3 and cmt4 has been around for a long time, so at least the majority of players do know these maps. 4on4: (e1m2, dm2, dm3, cmt3, cmt4) - 2on2: (dm2, dm4, dm6, ztn3, aero)

Playerlimit and additions

There is a playerlimit of 8 players per clan this season.
This is because we actually want all players to play. A lot of clans have something like 8-12 players in their roster, and there are actually some quite active players that aren't fielded due to the roster changes during the years, which has made some players stay in the clan without playing any matches. In our opinion these guys should try to find a new clan and make the scene more active! This restriction does not apply for division 1 since there never seems to be enough players. There has also been a small change in the player addition due to max players 8/clan. You can now have 8 players in the roster and "change" an inactive player to an active. This costs you 1 addition. So choose wisely your player before signing up.

Season length

This season will not be a long one.
We are trying to keep it down to 5 weeks and a couple of days (notice season starts on a Saturday so that we can play on Sunday the 10th). The playoff schedule will be announced later during the season. The main reason we want to keep it short is that most players have normal jobs and will probably have their summer vacation during late midsummer, and we want to have the games played before that. Saturday the 10th of May is the official start of EQL7 Summer. The end of regular season will be Sunday, June 15th (actually it's 03:00 June 16th). Due to only being a 5 week season, we hope the signed up teams to be able to play MORE than 1 4on4 game/week.


We have introduced a new point system!
The system will work like this: mapwin = 1 point, that will give a max of 2 points from mapwins. And in addition to that, 1 activity point. So the maximum amount of points you can achieve from a game is 3! Notice: You will NOT be extra rewarded for 2-0 map wins.

Other stuff

- Our new spectator rule for players in the same clan helps us to get cams for games. Read more about it in the rules section when it will be up.
- We will have lots of interviews and small awards every week!
- There will also be weekly news for what has happened in the league.

/The EQL Crew
2008-04-29, 08:30
Great news, love the new map pool !
And yea, the activity point raaawks! will work as a charm aswell!

Im sure this EQL is going to be a success!
2008-04-29, 09:04
nice. good choices
2008-04-29, 09:36
Yeah, this sounds great!
2008-04-29, 10:33
"There is a playerlimit of 8 players per clan this season."

Thanks for telling us how to run our clan.
2008-04-29, 10:44
Looks promising indeed! Kenya and small awards per week <3
2008-04-29, 10:51
#4, it's not about telling people how to run their clans, it's about encouraging activity..

Let's take your clan, Chosen had 13 players signed up for NQR11, 3 of those never played a single map, then you had 4 players who played 4 or less maps... So you actually only had 6 active players, thats less than half of the roster you signed up with.

As already stated, it is possible to swap players in the roster.
2008-04-29, 11:23
I'm with Kalma, it is none of your business if my clan has guys who want to sit on the sideline. Encourage activity within your own clan, teams like Chosen have been around for a long time and they know what is best for them. I would be very annoyed if I found out that I had to cull my old semi-active friends from my teamlist because an admin tries to get too creative.

As for the 2on2 league running parallel to 4on4... if this is compulsary then this is a bad idea. 2on2 is a very different gametype and does not favour the less active clans who don't have a lot of experience in 2on2. When I said in the comments beforehand that it would be a good idea for a 2on2 league to run parallel, I should have chosen my words more carefully - I didn't mean directly parallel with the same divisions and stuff. Me+mickah played in the last NNQL, and we were in the second lowest division and finished low mid-table. We lost to rookie 2on2 teams, and now we will find ourselves forced to pair up vs the likes of arnette+grisling! If we want to enter the 4on4 league, this 2on2 would be heavy baggage for us that we are not interested in. It should be opt-in only, with divisions based on 2on2 merit.

And as for TB5 - why can't you just accept that most clans simply do not want to play on CMT3 or CMT4 - ever! The NQR system of optional extended map pool worked very well, clans that wanted to play on kenya had the choice to do so.

I can understand when a league has one quirk, e.g., TB5 compulsary, OR a parallel 2on2 compulsary, OR a new points system, OR a player limit (???). But to lump us with all these things makes me question whether this league belongs to the community or to a couple of admins who want to force their own preferences on the rest of the us. To come out with this announcement as a done deal is disappointing. I would have liked to have had the opportunity to give this feedback before it was all set in stone.
2008-04-29, 11:26
Suggestions for rules: every player should have his/her wiki page with complete clan history
2008-04-29, 11:36
Yea that would be nice, I'd happily help out if i just got the info handed to me. Also it would roXX if people just changed clan if they are already listed etc.
2008-04-29, 11:37
I like it. But if the points from 2on2 games and 4on4 games are put together, making divisons will be somewhat more complicated.

For example sTa are a top/mid nqr-bronze team in 4on4, but they would be able to field a 2on2 squad that would be a serious threat to most teams in nqr gold.

The issue is, should the division balance be on 2on2/4on4 or overall.

Perhaps 4on4 points should be x2?
2008-04-29, 11:40
We have found that its good to have plentiful roster so that we can get a prac or league match going more than once a week. Personally I have played only 7 maps in NQR so far (one match got removed), but have played numerous pracs which are also important for keeping the clan alive. We still struggle sometimes to get 4 guys to show up. Like the week before semifinal when we couldnt get a single prac played.

You are right that 3 of our members have not played a map, but they wouldn't have played for any other team either. I guess we put them there because of late addition rule incase they showed up (especially Term would get angry ). Might look ugly on roster page, but nobody gets hurt.

I don't think the rule is a disaster, but I don't see it promoting activity as you intend it to. For that purpose limit of 8, 10 or 20 makes little difference. Make it 5 and we will recruit some more members to make 2 teams
2008-04-29, 12:22
agreed totally with hedgepig points on this. the sticking point being the map pool. this is a major talking point within the scene and to just push through tb5 seems an astonishing decision.....
2008-04-29, 12:29
#7: We are not trying to be too creative with that, we have just noticed that there are really many players stuck in a clan that fields lineup #3 and never seems to get to play. And with 2 swaps during the season they will be able to play the same amount as before too.

Also #7: Well divisions on 2on2 merit. Well tell me where to find any kind of merits that are realiable enough. The problem is that there are NONE. Only a couple of teams/lineups that will be played within the 2on2 league has been seen active before in proper 2on2 action. And yes we know that divisions doens't match the 2on2 thing compared to the 4on4. But you've gotta remember that there is max 8 different players playing, so based on which lineup should we have done the 2on2 division in the case we would have had different from the 4on4s?

Also #7: Cmt3/4 has all seasons lost something like 45/55% the voting. And those are voted by whole clans. Not ALL players. And as said there has always been kenyas during summer so you can consider this as a part of it.

Also #7: We didn't have too much time to put the EQL together, so we simply didn't have time to listen to too much opinions, since there would have been NO LEAGUE in that case. So think about that for a while

#10: The points in the 2on2 league does not affect the points in the 4on4 league. The rules will be up tonight so you can read more about it later this evening.

#11: Well we decided to do this now, since there are lots of players stuck in clans. I don't know the situation in your clan, but they are out there fpr sure. This season will probably tell if it will be permanent or what the playerlimit will be in the future. But if we will not try, then we will not know if it makes any difference.
2008-04-29, 12:35
btw, i dont see the difference between div1 and other divs concerning the max-player limit. How did you come to this conclusion?
2008-04-29, 12:41
#14: Well last EQL we noticed that division 1 has lots of on/off players and due to them they seem to get inactive sometimes. Some cases needs to change more than 2 players during the season to keep activity. And since moving up towards division 1 is nothing that happends every day there's really hard for them to find new players. Usually also division 1 players don't get permission to play in other divisions so we are trying to keep them there also. Activity in division 1 is also important to keep the scene active. The only bad thing about this is ofc those #3 lineup players that doesn't get fielded which we prevent in other divisions. I did explain this really badly and I'm sorry about it
2008-04-29, 12:44
In last Nqr...

If we (A2k) would have been forced to remove some players when late adding Sassa and Zaq, we would have removed those that were expected to be least active (Bent, Torre and some more). Bent and Torre then became a bit active late season and helped us to complete a few games...
2008-04-29, 12:50
#16: This is a ~5 week long regular season so you should be able to tell 2 weeks forward which ones will be active. That should solve the problem.
2008-04-29, 12:52
I have to say that its pretty fun that ppl just dont want ANY changes. We just played an AMAZING nqr league, and i liked it alot. But now its almost over and this league about to start. Why dont change some things and make this to an amazing league that takes us to the summerbreak. Gets kind of booring if we do the same thing over and over all the time?
2008-04-29, 12:59
i like this news!
now i know i have to play qw after the beach
2008-04-29, 13:03
trash, If you read thru all the comments, Most are happy and only disagree on a few minor issues.

But again, I like the format and hope i will have enough time to play in this league.
2008-04-29, 13:05
TB5 yeehaaww !!
2008-04-29, 13:17
Hedgepig wrote:

I can understand when a league has one quirk, e.g., TB5 compulsary, OR a parallel 2on2 compulsary, OR a new points system, OR a player limit (???). But to lump us with all these things makes me question whether this league belongs to the community or to a couple of admins who want to force their own preferences on the rest of the us. To come out with this announcement as a done deal is disappointing. I would have liked to have had the opportunity to give this feedback before it was all set in stone.

I like your long comment, as it shows that you care... but it sounds to me like you were expecting a season 12 of NQR, and not a summer edition of EQL.

About the kenya maps, CMT3 and CMT4 has been a part of EQL since season 2, EQL has always tried to encourage that clans play more than TB3, this is not something that we just came up with.

About the playerlimit, remember again that this is not NQR11, you don't have 10 weeks to play your matches, you have 5, and you can swap players, i don't see many clans fielding more than 10 different players during a 5 week period. For almost all clans, it's the same 5-6 players playing all the games.

About the 2on2 divisions, Arnette/grisling would be hard for every 2on2 team, but you can't move a team because there is 1-3 teams they can't beat.

It would have been a lot easier for us to have just copy/pasted NQR11 and changed the logo... But why have two different leagues with the same system? There should be some difference between playing in NQR and EQL.
2008-04-29, 13:19
Nice, nice, nice! Some thoughts from me:

Will a clan be able to field more than one 2on2 team?

Don't limit the players to 8. Especially in summertime you will be happy about everyone who played some maps, even if only 2 or 3, to keep the activity in the league. Players who really feel left on the bench will look for another clan themselves, you don't have to nanny them.

Point system is: 2-0 = 3 points, 2-1 = 3 points, 1-1 = 2 points, 0-2 = 1 point, yeh?
2008-04-29, 13:21
Good news. Totally agree with Turbo!

Edited by Zalon on 29 Apr 08 @ 14:25CET
2008-04-29, 13:28
#23: Sad but true, really many players does need nannys to make it happend . And no, you will not be able to field more than one 2on2 team. This will be considered in later EQLs when we have more time to prepare for the season.
2008-04-29, 13:29
Correction to last one. You will have 1 team and your able to field all 8 players so nobody understands that the wrong way.
2008-04-29, 13:46
I'm pretty happy to read this piece of news and I'm more than satisfied with the new admins that were recruited. Aside from that, I largely agree with trashie: Trying new things can be a good thing. Just look at how the new points system adapted in NQR11. Sometimes it's just the right time to take a new approach.
As for the maps, I don't think adding CMT3+CMT4 is a very "daring" approach to try and reward fans of "Kenya". But yeah, although I personally don't really like those two maps, it's a fact that pretty much everyone knows them, and I'm sure theres quite a few people out there happy about having these in the map-pool. So "why not"!

The only thing I really disagree with very strongly is the member limit for clans. We have had 11 players signed up this season, 8 of which played games, 3 of which played none. But as Kalma (or someone) said, it's not like these players were "benched" and would love to play more actively in another clan. We got eb for example, who is still a member of our clan, talks on our IRC channel every day, but currently works in Spain. We got flow, one of the founding members of our clan, who disappeared off the face of the earth when he started his studies 600km from his home, but never left the clan. And we got Zerox, who also talks on our IRC channel every day, but only sporadically plays QW after we recruited him at a lan because he sat next to me for 3 days and was such a nice guy with a fair bit of potential.
All of the above mentioned will probably not play any games in the coming up EQL either, but I don't see why we should deny them the possibility to play even IF they decided to play again. And no, they're not gonna join any other clans.

Other than that, I wish you guys good luck with EQL. A bit risky maybe to try and squeeze EQL in between NQR and summer-break, but I'm confident that it can work if you guys decide to be nazi-enough about the schedule.
2008-04-29, 14:15
maybe you can try member limit on a winter competition. dispiste its 1 month only tounament, it may be hard to choose which 8 players will be active during that period, specially for the least active clans (like mine). im afraid that rule can bring nothing good. not in summer.
2008-04-29, 14:25
The signups will also be short, so when you signup you will probably know who will be active atleast for some time. And it's still kind of 10 players since you can make the swaps. And we are NOT throwing people out from any clan, we just want them to reconsider beeing in the clan they are. Some of them probably would play lots more in a clan with a lower skill level (NOTICE: some players!). And this is a test for this season, either it works or it doesn't but shouldn't really do any harm either.
2008-04-29, 15:00
zalon, and even if we only have 8 players, the rest of our players wont start an own clan or join any other. BUT they maybe wants to play a map or two when they have time. Dont think that rule will make the scene more active. In chosens case it will be 5 players less and those wont go to another clan.
2008-04-29, 15:07
i am thinking of making a second team in suddendeath as i dont have the skills to compete in div 1. that is one nice solution? we will have 1 team in div 1 and 1 team in maybe div 2-3. (not with any of the players from the div 1 team ofcourse) We all are in the same clan but in different teams. Maybe that wont work for you guys but i like it. -------> more active teams.
2008-04-29, 15:08
btw,,any players that needs a clan? #suddendeath
2008-04-29, 15:29
Nice to see your definition of "TB5" hehe
2008-04-29, 15:32
Didnt trash just prove that this playerlimit rule is as much needed in div1 as anywhere else
2008-04-29, 16:50
erm no?
2008-04-29, 18:41
what mushi said.
2008-04-29, 20:31
i was refering to the "good decisions" part.
i think the playerlimit is at least in interesting idea.
2008-05-01, 14:17
Im fine with all the changes, but i do have some comments

More then 1 game a week sounds fun, but looking at my own situation I prefer 1 a week. Yes I can play on more then 1 day a week, but i prefer 1 day a week. As I got a fulltime job, friends and gf i live with who doesnt really like it when I play every evening
In the qw community there are lots of people just like me, we all know that. Except for a few hardcore players out there most of us play once or twice a week and sometimes cant the entire week.
So keep in mind that this rule might scare some semi-active teams.
Its a good thing youve considered summer holidays coz last thing we want is everyone going inactive last weeks, so another option to make it a short league is smaller divisions. Maybe not the most fun thing, but divisions of only 5 teams makes it a short league.

The playerlimit of 8 is a nice idea to encourage activity, but personally I think it will only lose players to the qw 'scene'.
Some people who play every now and then, lets say twice a month stick with their team as its their only possibility to play at all. If these people get kicked out of their team as they are nr. 9 they will probably lose their last bit of interest in qw and totally quit. I think that's the last thing we all want.
If someone in a big team with lots of players wants to play more he will look for another team. Forcing them isnt going to help.

Kenya maps are fine, please people dont let them scare you. Worst thing that can happen is that you lose. So what. C'mon it are ok maps.. allthough..cmt4... bleh
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