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Maps  /  5 Nov 2007, 13:11
The textfile/readme drama
I guess I am pretty famous for my futile attempts of getting people to respect readme files that come with maps. Warning, whine and drama ahead.

It has long become standard in the QW scene to distribute the maps (.bsp) ripped out of their ZIP and without their accompanying textfiles. Probably this was even boosted by the QW servers providing the plain BSP files to players who missed them.

Why is this a problem?
Well, first of all providing a textfile makes it easier for the users to get additional informations about the map. Authors tend to provide a way to contact them and include additional informations such as known bugs etc. Maybe some of you read the mvdsv-kg.txt I wrote to accompany my little map? I included links to the source for the map, to 24bit textures, credited the creators of the textures and provided my email address to contact me. Is this not useful?

Many mappers include a variation of following text: This level can be distributed in any way, on any medium, so long as the .ZIP file is not altered. The full text file must be included.
What does this mean? It means the mapper would be delighted to have his map distributed and he grants you the permission doing so if you simply keep the ZIP file as it is.

People to used to distribute the plain BSP files nowadays so sadly there is no point asking them to distribute the ZIP files instead. Hell, I doubt most have ever seen the ZIPs of their collected maps. What is possible however is a) an integration of ZIP support into ezQuake (it's already there in some kind I think), b) have the servers allowing download of ZIPs instead of BSPs. Or as an variation, make the clients download mapname.txt when getting mapname.bsp from a server.

I mean, at least the people who are actively working on the map distribution could abide that "rule".

Why I am writing this rant has an easy explanation. After seeing Empezar not wanting to include the text files into nQuake we had a heated discussion in IRC that went ridiculous immediately:

Quote:
Empezar: the text file thing won't happen, nquake is about being clean and nice - text files in maps dir are just the opposite imo


Spirittt: fnu[Empezar]: wtf about not adding the textfiles
Spirittt: have you ever read one of them?
Spirittt: no? you should
fnu[Empezar]: i have
fnu[Empezar]: there's absolutely no point adding them to nquake
Spirittt: there is
fnu[Empezar]: tell me then
Spirittt: how about "Include this text file untouched and give me credit."
fnu[Empezar]: "created using gtkradian. took me 20 hours."
Spirittt: or about "You MAY distribute this BSP, provided you include this file, with
Spirittt: no modifications. You may distribute this file in any electronic
Spirittt: format (BBS, Diskette, CD, etc) as long as you include this file
Spirittt: intact."
fnu[Empezar]: oh, so servers should not allow downloading of bsps
Spirittt: oh, now you are evading
fnu[Empezar]: this is silly
Spirittt: yes, silly not to abide the simple wish of the mappers and include ~10KB of textfiles
fnu[Empezar]: nquake is used to play multiplayer
fnu[Empezar]: it shouldn't
fnu[Empezar]: shareware license forbids it
fnu[Empezar]: should i shut down nquake now?
fnu[Empezar]: simple wish of creators
fnu[Empezar]: they spent tons of hours and money on creating quake
fnu[Empezar]: more so than map makers
fnu[Empezar]: if you want to whine about a thing like this, be consistent
fnu[Empezar]: ask me to shut down nquake
Spirittt: fuck you
burps: don't shut it down unless you are told by "the creators"
Spirittt: should i get the mappers to tell you to include them or what do you want with this stupid "comparison"?
fnu[Empezar]: i'm not shutting anything down
fnu[Empezar]: i could include the text files, and then have nquake remove them after installation
Spirittt: give credit where it is due
Spirittt: what is so hard about including them?
Adde|: or dont include maps
Adde|: and let them dl them
fnu[Empezar]: it's a pain though adde, if they want to start playing against bots
fnu[Empezar]: finding a server where the map is played
Adde|: u can include them in the fb pack
fnu[Empezar]: doesn't matter in what pack i put them, everything gets downloaded
Adde|: well
fnu[Empezar]: Spirittt, if it's about credits, i could write a credits.txt and include that in nquake
Adde|: if u include them in the pak .. then it doesnt really matter .. it is there and it isnt altered
Adde|: but not actually in plain sight
fnu[Empezar]: or just put credits at the bottom of the soon-to-be readme.txt


I can't see any disadvantage in providing text files and thus beg you (everyone) to do it.
Comments
2007-11-05, 21:22
word up spirit.
2007-11-06, 07:58
yeah, txt files with maps!
2007-11-06, 08:28
Doesnt bsp-format include some taging thing that can be shown by client upon map-load/request
2007-11-06, 15:43
Not enough payload Willghurt.

The mentioned "being about clean and nice" seems to apply only to the user's file system, where as it is rather dirty and not nice to those who contribute to our Quakeworld with their maps. Bad game, really.
2007-11-06, 16:08
My suggestion was not meant to interfere with any existing textfile. I just suggested that it would be a good place to have some info about the map that could be shown in game, as users are not that likely to dive into a sub-sub-dir of their quake-install-dir.
2007-11-06, 16:13
Well, maps have a "message" field that is used for the map's title and often a "by authorname". There is no such things like tags.

The textfiles are named mapname.txt, so there is no possible interfering.
2007-11-06, 17:00
I can add the maps to a "maps.pak" and put the text files in there. that is as far as I will go. if you don't like it you can create sQuake with all the text files you can find on the internet if you want. nQuake is open source.
2007-11-06, 17:49
easy solution is to do that, or what I think will be the best solution is to have individual .pk3 files (when 1.9 is stable) with text files
aerowalk.pk3 bsp/.txt
etc
2007-11-06, 20:58
can i put .pk3 in qw/maps?
2007-11-06, 21:18
No, but you could name it maps.pk3 and put it into /qw. Or is that still unacceptable disorder?
2007-11-06, 21:24
well i was replying to up2's post, where he said i should put all the maps in individual .pk3 files. this would clutter up the qw dir quite a lot. having them in qw/maps would be fine though. you should get laid or something.
2007-11-06, 23:04
i think it would be a good compromise to wait for EZQuake 1.9 Final and then put .txt files in id1/maps.pk3

this is not a very very urgent thing.. and forcing Empezar at this very moment to make a maps.pak and have to update every mirror is kind of an ego-trip
2007-11-07, 02:10
empezar: we could work something out with having qw\mapname.pk3 most likely.
I agree having many individual maps clutter important folders is a bad idea, and I also don't like having one large maps.pk3 file.

Spirit is right that .txt files should be distributed with the .bsp. I know I would be very upset if QRP textures were distributed without credit. For now, though, I would probably not include them and just gather all the txt files, and when 1.9 goes stable include .txt files. this is probably what you plan anyway...

Edited by Up2nOgOoD[ROCK] on 07 Nov 07 @ 03:10CET
2007-11-07, 06:15
"this is not a very very urgent thing.. and forcing Empezar at this very moment to make a maps.pak and have to update every mirror is kind of an ego-trip"

this is actually very simple and i do it every day...
2007-11-07, 11:01
How many maps are we talking about?
2007-11-07, 15:16
67 maps
2007-11-08, 15:22
soooo i've decided. i'll include the text files IN the maps directory - IF you find all the text files for the maps. that means all the text files.
2007-11-09, 00:10
I was with you until this point:

"Spirittt: fuck you"
2007-11-10, 12:12
no response for 2 days. i take it your part in this is only to whine like a bitch, not do actual work? well fine then. i prefer the maps dir clean anyway.
2007-11-10, 22:54
Impatient? I am halfway through collecting the textfiles (doing your work) and I will send them to you once I am done.
2007-11-11, 07:41
great then. i take back what i said.
2007-11-12, 12:14
Wouldn't moving from .bsp to .pk3 increase loading times?
2007-11-12, 13:19
I can code KTX to show up my name, picture and boob size or contact means if I wish, but remember mappers can't do that since they have a really limited place to put info displayed on client. I agree on the mess in the maps dir, but I think a copyright dir in the maps one with all the textfiles is nice. Spirit, if you make a package of copyright files for maps, I'll put it up somewhere.
2007-11-20, 18:05
http://www.quaddicted.com/stuff/txtfornquake.zip

I could not find any sign of textfiles for quite a lot of them. If anyone has a missing textfile please post. These are the maps that are missing one, sadly mostly the mappers decided not to create one:

3ebluebeta
amphi
cmt1b
cmt2
cmt3
cmt4
cmt5b
cpm3a
cpm3qw
catwalk
dad
death32c
del1
dm2dmm4
dm3hill
dm5a
dmz1++
endif
head-shot
lady
pdm18
rf2test
rwild
sacredb1
schloss
shine
skull
speed
tridm3
vdm3
vdm3v3
ztndm3q
ztrain
ztricks
ztricks2
2007-11-21, 21:03
As already mentioned 3ebluebeta and the other three don't have a proper txt file yet because they are still betas (not officially released yet; the finals will have one of course) and should therefore not be included in the nquake package.
2007-11-24, 14:50
i thought exposure was a good thing when during betas.
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