User panel stuff on forum
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Maps & Textures
2017-03-22, 18:31
News Writer
88 posts

Registered:
Sep 2014
Hi. I'm currently working on the wiki page for bravado. Because, as many of you already know, my language skills far exceed those that I display as a quaker, I'm a bit inept at adequately covering how the map actually plays. Any input on strategy, opinions (both for and against the map), and any other ideas, would be helpful and greatly appreciated. You can be as objective or subjective as suits you, all input has potential value.
2017-03-22, 22:20
Administrator
835 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
Help the man help me help the wiki help the community help you!
IRC went Discord -> join the chats @ discord.quake.world
2017-03-22, 22:22
Member
138 posts

Registered:
Feb 2012
praxismo wrote:
Hi. I'm currently working on the wiki page for bravado. Because, as many of you already know, my language skills far exceed those that I display as a quaker, I'm a bit inept at adequately covering how the map actually plays. Any input on strategy, opinions (both for and against the map), and any other ideas, would be helpful and greatly appreciated. You can be as objective or subjective as suits you, all input has potential value.


I feel like even in its latest incarnation the map still has a few balance problems. It got much better, but I think it can still stand some improvement.
For one I dislike the spawns very much, particularly the ones around yellow. And in general - yellow area is the biggest concern on the map. It's still a bit too easy to put pressure on the player out of control, who'll naturally try to go for the yellow. Too many entry points, too easy to spam. You can even spam YA a bit directly from the red, lol. And considering the spawns there the yellow area tends to give too many frag streaks for the player in control.
There's another concern, IMO, that is linked to that imbalance - mega is easier to get to from red than it is from yellow. Which, obviously, only adds to frustration when you're out of control.
Among the proposed solutions was apocalypze's idea of switching red and yellow - a solution which I liked a lot and still do. Got refused for reason that it would create a 2on2 imbalance of having quad and red in one place. Does anyone even play this map in 2on2?!
Also, my own suggestion was to switch mega with cyan armor making it a little closer to the yellow. It'll also make it spammable and easier to grab with rj tricks.
“If I wanted you to understand it, I would have explained it better.” (c) Johan Cruyff
2017-03-22, 23:47
Administrator
171 posts

Registered:
Sep 2015
Drake wrote:
Among the proposed solutions was apocalypze's idea of switching red and yellow


Available on your friendly neighbourhood bot server (dev.badplace.eu:28501-4), bravado#apok

Drake wrote:
Also, my own suggestion was to switch mega with cyan armor making it a little closer to the yellow. It'll also make it spammable and easier to grab with rj tricks.


bravado#drake

(asking for anything more complicated than switching items means new bot routes, takes a long longer)
2017-03-23, 09:30
Member
138 posts

Registered:
Feb 2012
<3
“If I wanted you to understand it, I would have explained it better.” (c) Johan Cruyff
2017-03-26, 20:24
News Writer
839 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
I found when running Red/Mega, you could get from Mega to Red far too quickly.... (edit: I just noticed that you guys also said a similar thing)

If you delayed Red pickup until around 3 seconds after Mega runs out, you would have a good 15 seconds to push a lot of pressure on the yellow-side player before heading to Mega to make sure you get it again. You could get from Mega to Red with a single RJ up over the elevator (and that angle is almost impossible to defend against if you are waiting for red as there no back wall) to easily get red again. The person with Mega also has the Green right next to the Mega to supplement themselves for the fast RJ entrance back to Red. You can also mix it up by coming up the middle passage way and RJ up or use the tele(s). If this is done right, the person without Mega/Red really would have no hope in coming back.

My suggestion would be to swap Quad and Mega. I think that would be a big improvement. Not sure if swapping Red and Yellow would be so great as there is so many entrances to Yellow and the thing about Red is it is hard to get to making it rewarding to have. Mega on the Quad platform would change up everything.
2017-03-26, 21:23
Member
138 posts

Registered:
Feb 2012
dirtbox wrote:
I found when running Red/Mega, you could get from Mega to Red far too quickly.... (edit: I just noticed that you guys also said a similar thing)

If you delayed Red pickup until around 3 seconds after Mega runs out, you would have a good 15 seconds to push a lot of pressure on the yellow-side player before heading to Mega to make sure you get it again. You could get from Mega to Red with a single RJ up over the elevator (and that angle is almost impossible to defend against if you are waiting for red as there no back wall) to easily get red again. The person with Mega also has the Green right next to the Mega to supplement themselves for the fast RJ entrance back to Red. You can also mix it up by coming up the middle passage way and RJ up or use the tele(s). If this is done right, the person without Mega/Red really would have no hope in coming back.

My suggestion would be to swap Quad and Mega. I think that would be a big improvement. Not sure if swapping Red and Yellow would be so great as there is so many entrances to Yellow and the thing about Red is it is hard to get to making it rewarding to have. Mega on the Quad platform would change up everything.


I like the suggestion. That platform does nothing in duel and placing mega there will fill the gap + improve the balance.
“If I wanted you to understand it, I would have explained it better.” (c) Johan Cruyff
2017-03-27, 11:16
Member
31 posts

Registered:
Feb 2008
dirtbox wrote:
I found when running Red/Mega, you could get from Mega to Red far too quickly.... (edit: I just noticed that you guys also said a similar thing)

If you delayed Red pickup until around 3 seconds after Mega runs out, you would have a good 15 seconds to push a lot of pressure on the yellow-side player before heading to Mega to make sure you get it again. You could get from Mega to Red with a single RJ up over the elevator (and that angle is almost impossible to defend against if you are waiting for red as there no back wall) to easily get red again. The person with Mega also has the Green right next to the Mega to supplement themselves for the fast RJ entrance back to Red. You can also mix it up by coming up the middle passage way and RJ up or use the tele(s). If this is done right, the person without Mega/Red really would have no hope in coming back.

My suggestion would be to swap Quad and Mega. I think that would be a big improvement. Not sure if swapping Red and Yellow would be so great as there is so many entrances to Yellow and the thing about Red is it is hard to get to making it rewarding to have. Mega on the Quad platform would change up everything.


+1
2017-03-28, 12:27
Administrator
171 posts

Registered:
Sep 2015
dirtbox wrote:
My suggestion would be to swap Quad and Mega.


bravado#dirtbox

The alternatives are all on nl.badplace.eu too.
2017-03-28, 12:44
News Writer
839 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
meag wrote:
bravado#dirtbox

The alternatives are all on nl.badplace.eu too.

big improvement!

you've done that using .ent files right? where can i get that to put on other servers?
2017-03-28, 13:15
Administrator
171 posts

Registered:
Sep 2015
dirtbox wrote:
you've done that using .ent files right? where can i get that to put on other servers?


Should be able to grab with
/download maps/bravado#dirtbox.ent
etc.
2017-03-29, 21:44
News Writer
839 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
The good thing is bravado is that still in BETA and the changes I have described in this thread may very well be added to the next beta (bravadocb3.bsp) or the official final version.

The version called bravado.bsp which is going around now is actually bravadocb2.bsp that someone other than the mapper decided to rename to bravado.bsp in order for the map to gain acceptance.

Quote:
he got obsessed by the name and just released one of my betas himself


This is going to cause problems when the final version does actually get released. We will end up with 2 versions of the one .bsp going around with the same name just like skull.bsp... what a cluster fuck.
2017-03-30, 07:17
Administrator
835 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
dirtbox wrote:
The good thing is bravado is that still in BETA and the changes I have described in this thread may very well be added to the next beta (bravadocb3.bsp) or the official final version.

The version called bravado.bsp which is going around now is actually bravadocb2.bsp that someone other than the mapper decided to rename to bravado.bsp in order for the map to gain acceptance.

Quote:
he got obsessed by the name and just released one of my betas himself


This is going to cause problems when the final version does actually get released. We will end up with 2 versions of the one .bsp going around with the same name just like skull.bsp... what a cluster fuck.


Wait, what? There was a testing phase after b5(or was it b7?) with input and changes made. Eventually it was agreed to be the final version, atleast that is what I can recall. I guess you were'nt around at the time. A bit weird I must say!
IRC went Discord -> join the chats @ discord.quake.world
2017-03-30, 07:40
Member
285 posts

Registered:
Sep 2012
I remember it wasn't really done, and was rushed out for thunderdome :x
Anyway we already have two skull.bsp on different servers, it's not that bad
2017-03-30, 10:04
News Writer
88 posts

Registered:
Sep 2014
dirtbox wrote:
This is going to cause problems when the final version does actually get released. We will end up with 2 versions of the one .bsp going around with the same name just like skull.bsp... what a cluster fuck.


If another version does get released it should be named something other than bravado.bsp, we've got enough problems as it is with us having to delete versions of skull and dungeonsurf from our directories just to connect to a server. Let's not complicate even further what should be a simple process for users.
2017-10-01, 07:09
News Writer
839 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
does anyone have a copy of the bravado.map file i can have? i am going to concrete my quad/mega swap in to a .bsp as part of my new TB7 map remix pack
2017-10-01, 15:01
News Writer
250 posts

Registered:
May 2006
dirtbox wrote:
does anyone have a copy of the bravado.map file i can have? i am going to concrete my quad/mega swap in to a .bsp as part of my new TB7 map remix pack

Use hexeditor, bro! :-D
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