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2016-04-11, 23:03
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azruioo and I were experimenting on hitbox.tv, due to the shit performance of twitch, and the results were so phenomenal that my brain still won't accept it.

I've got pretty shitty 7.2Mb/s coaxial. Azruioooo uploaded with the (for twitch) insane settings of 1920*1080, at 3.5Mb/s, and there were absolutely no buffering events for the entire hour that we tested it. The quality was so insane that I had to keep resisting the urge to grab my mouse and interact.

Absolutely shits all over twitch.
2016-04-11, 23:05
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Nov 2008
praxismo wrote:
azruioo and I were experimenting on hitbox.tv, due to the shit performance of twitch, and the results were so phenomenal that my brain still won't accept it.

I've got pretty shitty 7.2Mb/s coaxial. Azruioooo uploaded with the (for twitch) insane settings of 1920*1080, at 3.5Mb/s, and there were absolutely no buffering events for the entire hour that we tested it. The quality was so insane that I had to keep resisting the urge to grab my mouse and interact.

Absolutely shits all over twitch.


1920*1080/60fps at 3,5mb/s won't work no matter which platform you use. At least not in any fast motion game like QuakeWorld.

I've also heard that hitbox are quite stable, likely due to it not being as massive as Twitch. Unfortunately switching to hitbox.tv in today's streaming community is basically popularity suicide. You don't get on hitbox.tv and look for a stream - you get on Twitch. Hopefully the competition will force Twitch to step it up a notch eventually, though.

(Edited 2016-04-11, 23:08)
2016-04-11, 23:08
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Feb 2016
we have tried this after experiencing many buffering issues while watching Ch0wW's stream (his settings are 2000Kbps bitrate, I'm not sure about the resolution but it is at least 720p). In fact, I have always experienced extreme buffering on twitch streams when there aren't many viewers in a stream for a reason that I do not understand (my internet is at least 20Mbps download and 100 Mbps upload).
I have tried broadcasting on twitch with 720p @ 1800 Kbps bitrate and there was a lot of buffering for both praxismo and me there.
I am actually very surprised by the performance of hitbox.tv, I have been able to stream 1080p with 3500 Kbps bitrate without a single buffering event while playing back my own stream on 3 windows.

Anyone knows the cause of twitch buffering ?

EDIT : the fps used in all the tests was 30

(Edited 2016-04-11, 23:12)
2016-04-11, 23:11
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Nov 2008
azruio wrote:
we have tried this after experiencing many buffering issues while watching Ch0wW's stream (his settings are 2000Kbps bitrate, I'm not sure about the resolution but it is at least 720p. In fact, I have always experienced extreme buffering on twitch streams when there aren't many viewers in a stream for a reason that I do not understand (my internet is at least 20Mbps download and 100 Mbps upload).
I have tried broadcasting on twitch with 720p @ 1800 Kbps bitrate and there was a lot of buffering for both praxismo and me there.
I am actually very surprised by the performance of hitbox.tv, I have been able to stream 1080p with 3500 Kbps bitrate without a single buffering event while playing back my own stream on 3 windows.

Anyone knows the cause of twitch buffering ?

EDIT : the fps used in all the tests was 30


Yeah, Twitch has issues with non-partnered channels buffering during high load times. It isn't a problem for everyone though, for example LocKtar's stream has been running really well without buffering issues.

What I was referring to about 3,5mb/s not working with 1080/60 is that 3,5mb/s is not enough to support such a resolution/fps in a high motion game. Buffer-wise, most connections nowadays should be able to play 3,5mb/s so in most cases when Twitch streams start buffering it's on their end, unless you're having some obvious connection issues.
2016-04-11, 23:14
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Nov 2008
I wanna say though that I really hope hitbox puts some pressure on Twitch and that more people switch over to Hitbox to create some competition. Twitch needs to allow more than 3,5mb/s to push the streaming experience forward as it's pretty stagnant right now. There's also the lurker Azubu that might put some pressure on Twitch, who knows.

Streaming platforms need competition anyways to ensure that things keep developing further!
2016-04-11, 23:18
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Sep 2014
Andeh wrote:
1920*1080/60fps at 3,5mb/s won't work no matter which platform you use. At least not in any fast motion game like QuakeWorld.


The fps was indeed set to 30fps but the quality and overall viewing experience was still orders of magnitude better than any 30 or 60fps twitch stream I've ever seen.
2016-04-11, 23:53
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Sep 2014
k so after that we tried 1280*720, 60fps, 3.5Mb/s, and again it was much better than twitch with no buffering events at all.

We then tried 1920*1080, 60fps, 3.5Mb/s, but unfortunately azruioooo's pc bottlenecked under the load, but I'm pretty sure the platform itself is capable.

They even claim that their platform can handle 4K@60fps
2016-04-12, 01:05
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Nov 2008
praxismo wrote:
k so after that we tried 1280*720, 60fps, 3.5Mb/s, and again it was much better than twitch with no buffering events at all.

We then tried 1920*1080, 60fps, 3.5Mb/s, but unfortunately azruioooo's pc bottlenecked under the load, but I'm pretty sure the platform itself is capable.

They even claim that their platform can handle 4K@60fps


Yes, Twitch does too, what I mean is that for you to run a good looking 1080p/60fps stream you'll need a higher bitrate than 3,5mb/s which Twitch does not allow. I don't know if Hitbox caps bitrate though, if they don't and you can go higher than 4mb/s then 1080p/60fps might actually look good.

Buffering is another issue and that is mostly on Twitch's end so I'm sure Hitbox is better in that department.
2016-04-12, 08:37
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Sep 2014
From the viewer's perspective it's all one issue: is it watchable at a reasonable quality or is it not? Many unpartnered casters on twitch are forced to broadcast at a significantly lower quality than their whole system is actually capable of, just so that enough of their viewers can watch without interruptions.

With my internet connection on twitch it's incredibly rare that I can watch any stream that doesn't have quality options, without frequent buffering events that all too often render the stream unwatchable. Last night on hitbox for over an hour I watched a stream of a much higher visual quality than any I have ever seen on twitch, (including the days when I had 150Mb/s down), with absolutely no interruptions at all. If a significant majority of the many people that often find twitch streams unwatchable due to buffering has the same experience, then it would be correct to say that hitbox @ X resolution, Y fps, Z bitrate, delivers a much better service to the spectator than twitch @ X resolution, Y fps, Z bitrate.

I can only speak for my experience and azruioooo's, however. At one point I even tried watching two separate 1080, 30fps streams at the same time, without any problems. Azruioooo did the same with 3. I would be surprised if these results don't reflect the general comparison, twitch already has a reputation of having problems.

I'll still tune in on twitch to all the qw streams that remain exclusively twitch, but unless amazon pull their finger out of their asses I'll choose hitbox over twitch when I'm browsing games, streaming, or if there is a qw stream available.
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