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European Quake League
2016-01-27, 16:57
News Writer
297 posts

Registered:
Feb 2008
Writing this so you all are able to complain/object and hopefully agree in the same place.

I am asking if you are OK with the best of d99 can be allowed to "multi clan" for a third /(fourth?) d99 team.

It's so far been dubbed the"Black" team.
The black team will consist of the top five players in d99 + 1 promising rookie.
All the players in the top team will also be playing on the standard d99 teams - where the teams are divided into theoretically equally skilled teams.
The best team will of course also be playing vs. the normal d99 teams.

The players that most likely will be playing on this new team are players like : Paniagua, Macisum, Timon, Klice, Dev and Erlend. + the rookie.
(Not me by the way. I don't think I will be playing on this top team at all if anyone wondered.)
I am not sure we will have anyone better joining us this season, but if we do - the list might of course change. These are the most likely candidates.


I would assume that the team would probably find it's way to around mid-range skill level for EQL21. Close to teams like Paras, Fatal Error, Felia-020 and Fraggers United- but most likely not one of the strongest contenders for mid range clans.
And so I believe the mid range teams would be the ones that have the most ability to block this request.
It should have absolutely no effect on div1 and div 3 type teams, other than they get an extra game to play.


Background Info about d99 -
Started to give everyone a chance to play EQL. Main objective keep QW alive by incorporating new players into the 4on4 scene.
Personal objective: I want to play 4on4 qw in 2020 and going forward.. The only way i saw how that was going to happen was to try to create the structure for it.

We have no requirements for people to join or play with us. You don't need to know the maps. You don't need to know how to report. You don't need to use mm3 if you would rather not. You don't have to know anything. And you don't really have to show up more than once or twice every three months.
Typically if someone finds their way to QW, they automatically qualify.

Now we have always had some good players, that haven't had to many problems playing with the weaker ones.
But as people have improved it's natural that they find another team.

The problem is: That the ones that stay loyal to d99, or never get asked to join another team, even when they improve: Are always playing with 2-3 weaker players, that on occasion has never played QW before.
And so they get disgruntled, moral drops and interest in playing QW dwindles away as I am unable to hold onto them. I have lost some players this way.
As such some end up leaving QW altogether. Which means that we, as a community lose a player - I don't like that...

Now the typical objections are: Of course a player can't multiteam, that makes no sense and is also against the rules in any competition.
But I believe the rule is intended to stop div0s fake nick on two good teams, or last minute save a weaker team by stepping in. Also to prevent situations where two equally skilled teams play each other, they bring in a great player.

But we are forming the team from the start, with fixed players.
And the same players will also be working on the standard weaker d99 teams. It will be a requirement that you prac with the weaker teams and help them get better if you are to be allowed on the "black" team.

I have often said that if you need a player for your team, come talk to us. But as the teams have not been doing that, we need a way to keep the players that stick in d99 feel they can get some good games going.

Hoping for positive replies!
Street Vendor Crack down Princess Cop
2016-01-27, 17:41
Member
219 posts

Registered:
Aug 2011
I donīt see the reason why you couldnīt make a Black team that only played in the Black team?
Make it mandatory for them to participate in d99 pracs, but I donīt see the reason why it has to be in EQL aswell?

Iīm not saying that Iīm against it, Iīm just curious.
carrier has arrived - twitch.tv/carapace_
2016-01-27, 18:45
News Writer
297 posts

Registered:
Feb 2008
Right, I was thinking about that for the 'Now the typical objections are'... thing - but forgot to add it. But now I can answer you at least

Because we aren't organized like that. We want everyone to be able to play EQL in teams that aren't based on dividing the skill between the teams. I think it's a general detriment to the scene to have skill level based teams. It's not productive for activity when the playerbase is small.

The major problem is other teams aren't taking in weaker players. If the other teams would, then there would be no need for d99. As such we have some decent experienced players and some really new.

Lets say we did this then - one strong eam, one weaker - the question I ask, how long would I be able to keep them playing?

I think we can both agree that EQL is the highlight, and it's the same for most. Even the ones losing - I don't want to see anyone get bored and leave.
These are players that haven't been playing QW for years like many of us, they never grew up with it. It's far more important to keep them around than to risk losing them because they never have any good teammates.

Well this is the argument. I can still understand some might not understand it. But EQL is an important tournament to d99. And we are based on equal teams and this won't change. And as such a black team would be in most a reward to the best players - and will possibly motivate someone new to practis more.


edit: I think it's a general detriment to the scene to have skill level based teams. It's not productive for activity when the playerbase is small.
I mean too many skill level based teams - you need some superstars out there of course =)
Street Vendor Crack down Princess Cop
2016-01-27, 21:24
Member
219 posts

Registered:
Aug 2011
I guess weīre going down the "but there should also be competition" road here once again. Itīs important to cater to the new players, but the top tier players still want challenges and are quite clearly a big motivation for most people. Like after a big final or an allstar game; mixes and other games start flooding the qtv-pages. Granted, that only shows that it spikes a persons motivation and may not be a long lasting effect, but atleast for me the biggest motivation I had back in the day was watching players like pietro play do quadruns so effortlessly.

Basically, we want both the old and the new players to stick around. Competition is important. Giving the new players something to strive for is important. I believe these shoes are far too big for EQL to fill with the scene at its current state.
carrier has arrived - twitch.tv/carapace_
2016-01-27, 21:37
News Writer
1267 posts

Registered:
Jun 2007
I think it is an interesting idea, gonna think some more about it and get back to you ocoini.
Chosen
2016-01-28, 11:23
News Writer
1267 posts

Registered:
Jun 2007
Generally I am against playing in several clans since in the past it has only been used for cheating.
Like adding some div0-1 faker to a low division team or just using some faker in order to get games played. (plate,cfg)

However, in this case it would be used to give the best D99 players a chance to give the mid/low clans a challenge and at the same time avoid draining the other D99 teams of their best players making it even harder for them to produce somewhat satisfiyng results.
As far as I can see this doesnt affect the competetive clans in the top of the table or even the ones aiming at winning the B playoffs.

I guess one argument could be: then why dont we let everyone else play in several clans as well in order to get more, faked, activity.
I see this a special case since it involves low skilled players and rookies and if it makes it more fun for them and they stick around and become better I think we all gain something from this.

Would probably be good if the players had special nicks for the d99 allstar team in order to separate their progress in the all star team compared to their regular d99 teams. Like Erlend and B-Erlend or something. I think you guys can come up with something better tho.
Chosen
2016-01-28, 12:58
Administrator
1243 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
Good call Hooray!

<brings out the champagne>


happy times!
never argue with an idiot. they'll bring you back to their level and then beat you with experience.
2016-01-28, 17:54
Member
219 posts

Registered:
Aug 2011
To clarify; Im not against d99 doing a black team in eql like ocoini suggested. I think its a win win. But the reasoning behind skill diverse teams I can not fully buy in to due to my personal experience.
carrier has arrived - twitch.tv/carapace_
2016-01-28, 19:11
News Writer
264 posts

Registered:
May 2006
The more teams the better.

I was asked to join 020 so that they could field 2 teams.

Seems to work out fine, think we already did 10 maps of praccinen.
Link, we are not even oldtimers anymore, we are dinosaurs. - Hooraytio
2016-01-29, 11:54
News Writer
297 posts

Registered:
Feb 2008
Wonderful, thank you!

*raises champagne glass*


Yes, I see what you mean Carapace. No, I didn't think you were against it, just that you found it puzzling.
It's a curious path to go, I admit that. It is in someways hard to see how this fits in with a competitive point of view: With a gradual increase to higher levels of personal skill for each player and team. Where players get picked up by other teams as their skill increases.

Ideally I think I would like all clans to have a rookie or two. Such that the playing field was more varied inside each clan, and would be a faster way to make people learn QW. This would also make it easier to have pracs as well. However this seems to not be happening in the tempo that new players actually come to the scene.
I would be very much open to trying to work out a way to make this work though. Where lesser skilled players could be taken into more experienced teams. But it's extremely frustrating to see cherry picking, which is what I have been seeing. - Cherry picking feels to me will only make the stronger teams stronger, while the weaker ones remain weak.
Apart from Thor10 going to sd2, I can't think of any example where a better team has downgraded their standards to accommodated a rookie level player.

I agree EQL can't solve activity problems. But I think we should admit that much of Quakeworld is focused on the major 4on4 tournament. Where I would say the majority of players only show up if there are official games - EQL is the one with the highest chances of doing this.

As such I am thrilled EQL alleviating some pressure from d99. Where holding onto the better players is very hard against cherry picking or ambitions of the most active players. As the ambitious players are more inclined to leave than to wait around for better teams to ask them. At least now I believe the goal of playing on an experienced squad seems much closer to them. Where EQL is where most the games of importance are played.

Tryouts for black team on monday !
Street Vendor Crack down Princess Cop
2016-01-29, 19:06
Member
201 posts

Registered:
Apr 2006
I asked this in the last EQL20 news comment, shortly before EQL21 was launched and therefore probably got little attention:

----
#38 andy - 2016-01-21 21:08 (37.201.240.XXX)
How about some ideas in regards of allowing "multi-claning" or allowing draft picks for one or two games per season for a player from another team?
I think there are players who are more active and would enjoy playing more often - and clans who would benefit from this support.

Also, clans don't really hate each other anymore, so I don't know if the concept of the singularity of "belonging into one clan only" still serves its original purpose.
----

I think the decision made here is a good one. In reality, the QW scene has been trying to get the most activity out of the very limited player base for a long time. I can't imagine the little bit of multi-clanning would discourage anyone from playing in EQL or taking things more or less seriously than without it.
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