User panel stuff on forum
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Client Talk
2015-11-18, 15:51
News Writer
619 posts

Registered:
Nov 2008
Hey boys, I'm back with another feature request!

I would like more information and stats after a game. We are shown the percentage of weapons and so on, but no indicator of how much we fired. Along with the LG percentage, I would like to see how many cells hit of how many fired. Like LG 30% (300/1000) or something like that. This would show a lot of information when it comes to weapons like RL or GL, and could show whether you spam enough compared to the really good players, and so on. So even if you have 5% GL accuracy, it would be interesting to see just how many grenades you fired during the game. Also, you might be super happy about a 45% LG on dm3 for example, but it is relevant information how many cells you fired to get that percentage.

I would also like more stats about damage done. Now, you can see damage done, taken and teamdamage done. Why no self damage done/self kills during the game? That is also interesting, and sometimes relevant information.

I'm no developer, but since the game already calculates all these things, shouldn't it be quite easy to implement?

I would be very happy for both these features!

EDIT: So Dimman told me that this is about ktx and not the client itself. So apparently we need to alter ktx... LET'S
2015-11-18, 18:03
Member
188 posts

Registered:
Feb 2011
Bogo recently started to implement some advanced / additional stats, I think a couple servers have his test build.
2015-11-18, 21:51
News Writer
269 posts

Registered:
May 2006
Yes, it's mod (ktx), and it's very ez to implement.
For example, speed statistics I made in 15 mins. :-]
2015-11-19, 00:28
News Writer
619 posts

Registered:
Nov 2008
VVD wrote:
Yes, it's mod (ktx), and it's very ez to implement.
For example, speed statistics I made in 15 mins. :-]


So who can fix it and implement it on every server?!
2015-11-19, 07:17
News Writer
1267 posts

Registered:
Jun 2007
I always wondered how many pines I shoot since I shoot alot of them and often have a high hit%
Chosen
2015-11-19, 07:52
Member
148 posts

Registered:
Sep 2013
Andeh wrote:
... shouldn't it be quite easy to implement?


Yep. I don't have the time to work on this but I took a look around so I'll give some pointers.


Andeh wrote:
I would also like more stats about damage done. Now, you can see damage done, taken and teamdamage done. Why no self damage done/self kills during the game?


1. There is a struct on every entity to store player statistics. It stores all kinds of great stuff!
ktx/include/progs.h - player_stats_t

2. It is used at the end of the game to print the player stats.
ktx/src/match.c - PlayersStats / OnePlayerStats

3. When damage is dealt the player stats for the attacker / target
ktx/src/combat.c - T_Damage

You could just add another player_stat for self damage, update it in T_Damage, and print it at the end of the game OnePlayerStats.

EDIT: Done - Screenshot in Link


Andeh wrote:
Along with the LG percentage, I would like to see how many cells hit of how many fired.


The number of cells fired / hit are already included in player stats (used to calculate efficiency for all weapons).

Take lg for example. To calculate lg efficiency OnePlayerStats() does:

h_lg = p->ps.wpn[wpLG].hits; // number of cells hit
a_lg = p->ps.wpn[wpLG].attacks; // number of cells fired
...
h_lg = 100.0 * h_lg / max(1, a_lg); // efficiency


So just update OnePlayerStats to output the values along side the percentage.

EDIT: Done - Screenshot in Link

Andeh wrote:
... it would be interesting to see just how many grenades you fired during the game.


Again, the data is already there in ps.wpn[wpGL]. Just print it out. I'll leave this one for you guys...

----

Some simple examples of patches to follow are:

I have a list of all kinds of end games stats I want to add, but I don't have the time and server admins are slow to update their servers. I implemented a few of the ones above because they were so easy. I encourage one of you to add the gl stats because you literally just have to type a few characters and learn to build + test the project.
2015-11-19, 09:28
Member
148 posts

Registered:
Sep 2013
Since I can't seem to get to sleep tonight, I'll just dump the end game stat ideas I came up with (a few BD came up with as well). They are intended to be fun and non-trivial. For example, "Number of nades fired" would be too boring to make this list.
  • Fun: RA spawns in duel - "Sane Spawns" (Done)
  • Fun: Last RA - "BLooD_DoG's Win Rule" (Done)
  • Fun: Top Axe Kills - "BogoJoker's Top Stat" (Done)
  • Fun: Last Kill - "BogoJoker's Win Rule" (Done)
  • Fun: dm2 big room lava kill credit instead of self death (Too Hard, lava is not tied to the button, maybe via location heuristic)
  • Fun: Most damage in one minute - rampage stat (Doable)
  • Useful: Transferred packs per team - Not all dropped packs go to the enemy (Done)
  • Useful: Duel time in control - a stat to work on improving, heuristic based like qtv/autotrack (Done)
  • Useful: Team time in control, 2on2 - a stat to work on improving, heuristic, e.g. when both enemies dead (Doable)
  • Useful: LG cells wasted per player - pre-hit misses and post-kill misses - improve your LG cell use effi (Doable)
  • Maybe Useful: Quad time held per player / team (Done)
  • Maybe Useful: Total time entire 4on4 team held weapons (RLs) (Medium)
  • Maybe Useful: Total time entire enemy team had no weapons (RLs) (Medium)
  • Maybe Useful: Average player distance from Quad when Quad spawned - BLooD_DoG skill calculation (No idea)
  • Maybe Useful: Average player distance from enemy when spawning, determine if the game was lopsided (No idea)
  • Fun: Count team boosts - team metric (No idea, need to identify when players are on top of each other)
  • Fun: Least/Most Team Messages per player - for shaming (No idea)
  • Fun: Slow Spawns per player (Easy)
  • Fun: Stolen items - often a player will steal a quad/ra and makes a big difference, would be nice to quantify that (No idea)
  • Fun: Output time markers - /demomark. (Done)
  • Achievement: "Trifecta" - 3+ directs in a row (Doable)
  • Achievement: "Kaboom" - GL + RL at nearly the same time (Doable)
  • Achievement: "Packrat" - Recovering your own RL pack in 4on4 (Doable)
  • Achievement: "Timer" - Taking mega less than 0.25s after it spawns (Doable)
  • Achievement: "Clueless" - Taking 2nd mega at 101-105 health (Doable)
  • Achievement: "Controller" - Taking more than (X) number or percentage of RAs in a 2on2, non-dm2 (Trivial)
  • Achievement: "Turnaround" - A team killing 2 enemy RLs in less than 10 seconds (Doable)
  • Achievement: "Thief" - Taking non-first-minute pent without a weapon, dm3 in mind (Doable)
  • Achievement: "Comeback Kid" - Coming back and winning from a 20-pt+ deficit in duel (Doable)
  • Achievement: "Bogo" - Beating opponent while pinging >100ms more than them in duel (Doable)


I implemented a bunch of these "fun stats" already, and users would be able to turn them on or off via /funstats (default would be off, like /silence is off by default).

Do you guys have fun / creative stats you'd like to see? The less boring the better.

(Edited 2015-11-22, 11:11)
2015-11-19, 10:03
Administrator
1246 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
I'm following this with great interest.

I've always been a stats kind of guy. not only on qw American sports are very stats-driven.
I love to check the stats after the game. When this came out, I scanned every game... i still do that for my team
games.

What is being discussed here ofc is very interesting, I love everything stats. This is a nice to have. But what I would prefer over this, is to see these same stats on a web browser. Yep, http://stats.quakeworld.nu/

Which desesperatly needs work. Pleura has started to do some, but he needs help. Gfx guy, webdesign guy... at least that. A nice qwstats site would make me very happy. Sorry to change the subject here - but its for the good =) So if you know someone that may help... please say so.


Regarding "server admins being slow updating their servers", i disagree - when it's needed, most server admins update their servers in less than 48h. Once these updates are ready, i can update nQuakesv and server admins can automatically update their servers
never argue with an idiot. they'll bring you back to their level and then beat you with experience.
2015-11-19, 10:46
Member
148 posts

Registered:
Sep 2013
mushi wrote:
Regarding "server admins being slow updating their servers", i disagree - when it's needed, most server admins update their servers in less than 48h.


Maybe then it is just that these kinds of changes are not "needed" and therefore slow to be picked up? Or maybe servers have updated and I'm not playing on your servers =(? Making teamoverlay a vote landed in the main ktx repository 20 days ago and I haven't played on a single server with the feature despite notifying some admins. I played in a game just this weekend (2on2) where 1 person turned off teamoverlay without consensus.

Things are hit and miss across the world:
  • Some servers do not properly store race times (uk). Often file permissions. Maybe this was fixed recently, I didn't double check.
  • Many servers do not have hoonymode enabled (foppa). Why not?
  • There are still servers with the wrong skull.bsp (qw1.irc.ax:27501). Instead I avoided dueling ocoini this weekend.
  • There are still servers lacking `povdmm4b.bsp` (la besmella). I had to play inferior maps last month on the rare occasion that I ping <50.
  • There are still servers lacking shifter.bsp (foppa, troopers). Heck, this is in a currently active tournament... When I'm ultimately forced to play at these servers at double the ping of my opponents, will I also not even be able to select maps I want to play in the tournament's map pool?


To be clear, I'm not mad at you. I'm just disappointed at how unorganized things are. I don't have the time to invest in fixing it, so I'm just complaining. A year ago there was a "qwassoc" initiative that went nowhere.
2015-11-19, 11:46
Administrator
1246 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
need updated binaries for all platfoms. i can't compile. someone compile and upload the binaries, and then i can add them to nQuakesv. A buildbot would be nice

regarding maps, i will add those to nquakesv today.
EDIT: updated nQuakeSV with maps (for now fnu only). When binaries are ready and available on nQuakesv, we can ask server admins to update both maps and binaries.
never argue with an idiot. they'll bring you back to their level and then beat you with experience.
2015-11-19, 14:20
News Writer
619 posts

Registered:
Nov 2008
Bogojoker understood exactly what I wanted.

Screenshot 1
Screenshot 2

Except of course, the hit/fired for all weapons.

Is it possible for someone to make a combined update including these changes, with a provided download URL to whatever patch, so that we can spam server admins about this? I would be happy to find the admins, but I can't make the ktx changes. Don't know how :-(

Stats on websites etc is cool and all, but I prefer the very easily accessible stats given to you right after a game.
2015-11-19, 15:08
Member
278 posts

Registered:
Jan 2015
Ok.

Is there a way to bring "Useful Damage" to the stats? I mean, how much damage u made to enemies with RL or LG, for example.

It would also very interesting to know how many quads you killed in the game.

About the servers:

I do not code. I do not admin linux servers. BUT, if you give me a guideline I can do every update you need on all the servers I run.
dev
2015-11-19, 15:48
News Writer
619 posts

Registered:
Nov 2008
andrestone wrote:
Ok.

Is there a way to bring "Useful Damage" to the stats? I mean, how much damage u made to enemies with RL or LG, for example.

It would also very interesting to know how many quads you killed in the game.

About the servers:

I do not code. I do not admin linux servers. BUT, if you give me a guideline I can do every update you need on all the servers I run.


Actually I think such stats would be misleading. All damage is useful damage. More often than not, boomstick spam is what brings an enemy low enough to be killable. So I would actually go against that stat.
2015-11-19, 16:47
Member
278 posts

Registered:
Jan 2015
Andeh wrote:
andrestone wrote:
Ok.

Is there a way to bring "Useful Damage" to the stats? I mean, how much damage u made to enemies with RL or LG, for example.

It would also very interesting to know how many quads you killed in the game.

About the servers:

I do not code. I do not admin linux servers. BUT, if you give me a guideline I can do every update you need on all the servers I run.


Actually I think such stats would be misleading. All damage is useful damage. More often than not, boomstick spam is what brings an enemy low enough to be killable. So I would actually go against that stat.


I wanted to say how much damage you (with any weapon) made to enemies that were carrying RL or LG. In dm2 for example, one can be killing spawners and boomstickers and another could be actually doing useful damage on enemies RL's, denying the stack they need to attack quad, which is far more important than just get points IMO.

(Edited 2015-11-19, 16:50)
dev
2015-11-19, 16:48
Member
22 posts

Registered:
May 2012
Cream and I did some testing on the race times issue a while ago, and there was some strange behaviour with the .top files:
If the .top file didn't exist when the server was started, it was recreating the file overwriting the existing time. Since the ports have been restarted, it's ok now (if it's not, please let me know).

I have recompiled ktx from dimman's repo on quakeworld.co.uk now, so your change should be there. Sorry I didn't do it sooner, these changes are much appreciated!

BogoJoker wrote:

Things are hit and miss across the world:
  • Some servers do not properly store race times (uk). Often file permissions. Maybe this was fixed recently, I didn't double check.

2015-11-20, 07:30
News Writer
1267 posts

Registered:
Jun 2007
Number of enemy quads killed, especially if they had rl/lg
number of rlpacks saved for mates or rlpacks bored/given to mates from self

(Edited 2015-11-20, 09:18)
Chosen
2015-11-20, 08:52
News Writer
619 posts

Registered:
Nov 2008
I feel this thread is getting hijacked for other feature requests...

My question still stands; who can make the proper ktx update? I can contact server admins to update their servers, but I don't know anything about ktx so someone else has to do that part.

This is the part that could easily be updated (according to Bogojoker)

Andeh wrote:
Bogojoker understood exactly what I wanted.

Screenshot 1
Screenshot 2

Except of course, the hit/fired for all weapons.

Is it possible for someone to make a combined update including these changes, with a provided download URL to whatever patch, so that we can spam server admins about this? I would be happy to find the admins, but I can't make the ktx changes. Don't know how :-(

Stats on websites etc is cool and all, but I prefer the very easily accessible stats given to you right after a game.
2015-11-20, 09:49
Member
148 posts

Registered:
Sep 2013
Andeh wrote:
This is the part that could easily be updated (according to Bogojoker)


What?
2015-11-20, 09:56
Member
148 posts

Registered:
Sep 2013
I cherry-picked a few more from my list tonight. I added end game stats for time: duel "time in control" and teamplay "time with quad".

The "time in control" heuristic is very basic: (start when spree > 2, end when death). It would mis-represent low scoring passive games, but unless you are at the top level of play I don't think it matters. I have ideas on how to improve it (based on item pickups), but the heuristics need to be tested in real games (or with demos) to determine if they are any good. Not sure if anyone has the time to try it and provide feedback.
2015-11-20, 10:16
Administrator
1246 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
Andeh wrote:
Stats on websites etc is cool and all, but I prefer the very easily accessible stats given to you right after a game.


well, "stats after a game" is ofc very cool, but the problem with it is that they're no longer acessible after the game (unless you run the demo). With website stats, those will be available whenever you want to see them. You just have to grab some popcorn and analyse the stats.
my 2 cents anyway

good job bogo!
never argue with an idiot. they'll bring you back to their level and then beat you with experience.
2015-11-20, 10:18
Member
148 posts

Registered:
Sep 2013
Andeh wrote:
Except of course, the hit/fired for all weapons.


I ignored this because I didn't think it would be useful. For LG it certainly is useful, but I couldn't come up with a compelling reason for other weapons.

There is non-obvious complexity with most weapons. Take sg for instance. For every sg shot you fire there are 6 bullets that do 4 dmg each. Not all bullets may hit. You may shoot the sg once and hit half the bullets (3 of the 6 bullets, 50% Effi, 12 out of 24 dmg). In that case what would you expect hit/fired to be? (3/6)? (1/1)? (0.5/1)? Things are similar for gl / rocket with splash damage. Nobody cares about nails. Axe swings? Maybe.
2015-11-21, 11:31
News Writer
619 posts

Registered:
Nov 2008
BogoJoker wrote:
Andeh wrote:
This is the part that could easily be updated (according to Bogojoker)


What?


BogoJoker wrote:
Andeh wrote:
... shouldn't it be quite easy to implement?


Yep. I don't have the time to work on this but I took a look around so I'll give some pointers.
2015-11-21, 11:33
News Writer
619 posts

Registered:
Nov 2008
BogoJoker wrote:
Andeh wrote:
Except of course, the hit/fired for all weapons.


I ignored this because I didn't think it would be useful. For LG it certainly is useful, but I couldn't come up with a compelling reason for other weapons.

There is non-obvious complexity with most weapons. Take sg for instance. For every sg shot you fire there are 6 bullets that do 4 dmg each. Not all bullets may hit. You may shoot the sg once and hit half the bullets (3 of the 6 bullets, 50% Effi, 12 out of 24 dmg). In that case what would you expect hit/fired to be? (3/6)? (1/1)? (0.5/1)? Things are similar for gl / rocket with splash damage. Nobody cares about nails. Axe swings? Maybe.


Grenades and rockets fired is very relevant. If I'm trying to improve, and I avarage around 120 rockets fired in a dm4 duel, while a good player avarages 240 rockets fired, it's an indication that I need to spam more. Such things are very relevant to me.

I agree about boomstick and so on though. But LG, RL and GL are relevant.
2015-11-22, 06:48
Member
148 posts

Registered:
Sep 2013
andrestone wrote:
Is there a way to bring "Useful Damage" to the stats? <snip> damage u made to enemies with RL or LG.


andrestone wrote:
I wanted to say how much damage you (with any weapon) made to enemies that were carrying RL or LG.


Done. Would be neat to see this in some EQL games to see how useful the statistic really is.
2015-11-22, 11:10
Member
148 posts

Registered:
Sep 2013
Hooraytio wrote:
rlpacks bored/given to mates from self


Done. BLooD_DoG had suggested this previously and called it "transferred packs". In my approach "Dropped" will still increment (you did drop!) but the end game stats will show "Dropped: 1 Xfer: 1" so you know your single dropped pack went to your team.

Hooraytio wrote:
number of rlpacks saved for mates


I'm not sure how to qualify a pack as a "saved" pack. Maybe "(1) a pack with RL where (2) a player with RL (3) stays within a close proximity to the pack until (4) a player with the same team as the close proximity player picks up the pack and (5) this player did not have RL previously". I think this is too complex a concept to rely on. Perhaps you have an alternate suggestion?

(Edited 2015-11-22, 11:14)
2015-11-22, 11:13
News Writer
619 posts

Registered:
Nov 2008
Since this thread was hi-jacked by other requests, could we keep this discussion and these updates to the topic and let the others make their own thread? :-)
2015-11-22, 11:16
Member
148 posts

Registered:
Sep 2013
Andeh wrote:
Since this thread was hi-jacked by other requests, could we keep this discussion and these updates to the topic and let the others make their own thread? :-)


Why? Personally, I'd rather 1 thread than 10.
2015-11-22, 11:28
News Writer
619 posts

Registered:
Nov 2008
BogoJoker wrote:
Andeh wrote:
Since this thread was hi-jacked by other requests, could we keep this discussion and these updates to the topic and let the others make their own thread? :-)


Why? Personally, I'd rather 1 thread than 10.


Because the OP gets seemingly ignored. This thread is about shots hit/shots fired and self damage.

We could just start deleting posts that are off-topic, but it's better if people simply stay on topic.
2015-11-22, 11:38
Member
148 posts

Registered:
Sep 2013
Andeh wrote:
Because the OP gets seemingly ignored.


Ignored!? Patches have already been submitted for your requests. Days ago. Any more action would likely require pinging ktx owners and server admins and figuring out their update process. Do you know the server admins for the servers you play on? I suggest trying to contact them; don't assume they read these forums.

Andeh wrote:
This thread is about shots hit/shots fired and self damage.


The title of the thread was rather open ended.
2015-11-22, 11:43
News Writer
619 posts

Registered:
Nov 2008
BogoJoker wrote:
Andeh wrote:
Because the OP gets seemingly ignored.


Ignored!? Patches have already been submitted for your requests. Days ago. Any more action would likely require pinging ktx owners and server admins and figuring out their update process. Do you know the server admins for the servers you play on? I suggest trying to contact them; don't assume they read these forums.

Andeh wrote:
This thread is about shots hit/shots fired and self damage.


The title of the thread was rather open ended.


Hmm, I could only see this one: https://github.com/deurk/ktx/pull/8 - and it didn't include more than LG fired/hit. Nothing about the other weapons.

If the other things have been patched, I'd love to know the URLs and then I can, as I have said, try to contact every server owner to update their servers.

EDIT: Ah, also saw self damage done here: https://github.com/deurk/ktx/pull/9

So I guess what's left is shots fired/hit for RL and GL, if those githubs are updates that I can give to the server admins (I don't know anything about KTX updates).
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