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2014-09-20, 05:41
Member
123 posts

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Mar 2006
Thought you guys might be interested in supporting this -

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/191095869/reflex

Definitely has a CPM/QW vibe and I'm curious to see how it develops. I'm hoping it gets funded. I couldn't resist going in for prototype access. Newborn also did an interview on ESR a few days ago -

http://esreality.com/post/2658108/newborn-interview-reflex/

I also post a bunch in www.reddit.com/r/reflex . Drop by irc.quakenet.org #reflex :-)
2014-09-20, 07:19
News Writer
871 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
I'm a pre-alpha tester for the reflex team so I've been playing this a bit lately. The core dev's are all QW and CPMA players. Definitely a strong CPMA feel but with the potential to go quite far. Definitely worth backing the project.

(Edited 2014-09-22, 14:58)
2014-09-20, 16:08
Member
123 posts

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Mar 2006
Just need to get the word out which is hard because the Quake community isn't as active as it used to be.
2014-09-20, 17:29
Member
3 posts

Registered:
Dec 2011
Hey guys, just a few more links for those who are interested:

Official Website: http://reflexfps.net/
Sub-Reddit: http://www.reddit.com/r/reflex
Twitter: https://twitter.com/ReflexDev (@reflexdev)
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/playreflex?ref=ts&fref=ts

Cheers
2014-09-20, 20:15
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286 posts

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Sep 2012
They shouldn't have used $AUD, 360 000$ seems a lot, but once converted to real money it's more rational
2014-09-21, 14:36
Member
3 posts

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Apr 2013
Seriously hope that they get the full amount. All the other fps games in development seem like big joke compared to this.
Prototype version in 2 months for less than 50 euros!!!
2014-09-21, 15:30
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3 posts

Registered:
Dec 2011
Hell[SSC wrote:
"]Seriously hope that they get the full amount. All the other fps games in development seem like big joke compared to this.
Prototype version in 2 months for less than 50 euros!!!



Exactly! These guys are not trying to re-invent the wheel, and mush all aspects of different FPS games, nor is it trying to create DOTA-FPS Support, and spread the word!

Thanks
2014-09-21, 16:38
Member
123 posts

Registered:
Mar 2006
It's a risk like any Kickstarter but I think it's worth it. If they didn't have an engine working already I'd probably not donate but they do. Truth is unless it picks up speed it looks like it's going to fall far far short.
2014-09-21, 18:03
News Writer
871 posts

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Jan 2006
Jissse wrote:
They shouldn't have used $AUD, 360 000$ seems a lot, but once converted to real money it's more rational

Yes I was baffled when I saw this $360k figure. If they only get $300k then they basically end up with $0.

They should have done $100k and then stretch goals for $150k, $200k etc which gives more features. Would be a shame if it didn't go ahead.

But anyway... I donated before the kickstarter and also backed the kickstarter. Hopefully it takes off.
2014-09-22, 00:45
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123 posts

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Mar 2006
dirtbox wrote:
Yes I was baffled when I saw this $360k figure. If they only get $300k then they basically end up with $0.


Impression I've gotten talking to people who haven't backed is that's a hell of a lot of money for three anonymous dudes. Especially considering I think only two of them are programmers. Even as a backer I can't imagine quite what all that money is going to. If they need it to hire out contract workers then they aren't much of a dev team and more like middle men who are going to manage the project. If they need it to match salaries to what they currently get, well then they need to justify it. Right now what they are showing isn't that impressive. Most people I've shown it to say, so, that's Q3?

KS has been in backlash mode lately as some big projects have completely failed. There's been numerous game projects that took much more than $360k that produced near nothing. It's hard to back something on promises in 2014. If they had done this a few years earlier it might have worked.

Quote:
They should have done $100k and then stretch goals for $150k, $200k etc which gives more features. Would be a shame if it didn't go ahead.


Yeah, which is how KS works for successful projects I've seen. I think we could have funded a $100k basic version much more easily because it doesn't give off a greedy impression like a flat $360k. For instance I suggested they do single/coop but I completely expected it to be a high stretch goal.

Quote:
But anyway... I donated before the kickstarter and also backed the kickstarter. Hopefully it takes off.


They could switch over to early access but this is a bad PR blow for them. It's also a bit shocking for me to see just how few backers they've gotten so far. Most KS projects get the majority of their backers and funds at the start and end. For Reflex to get funded it probably needs 5k-10k backers. Right now it has 359.
2014-09-22, 10:22
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101 posts

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Sep 2014
pg wrote:


Impression I've gotten talking to people who haven't backed is that's a hell of a lot of money for three anonymous dudes.


320k usd is actually a small amount for a game on this scale, with the community features they're talking about, and these are what arena shooters need in this era of online gaming in order to become successful, as they well know. As for it looking like quake, if they want to make the best game they can make, why should they need to reinvent the wheel?

The developers may seem anonymous to you, but I've been following this project since the beginning, and the developers have stayed consistently true to their word and have obviously worked tirelessly to make this project happen. Moreover, I have been impressed by their positive and forward looking attitude, both in the ideas they come up with and their response to a crap ton of insults from all the people that just want to go back to 1999, and also the people in the community that want to get involved and help make something awesome; these guys don't talk crap, they just do what they've said they're going to do.
2014-09-22, 10:31
Administrator
1021 posts

Registered:
Apr 2006
praxismo wrote:
pg wrote:


Impression I've gotten talking to people who haven't backed is that's a hell of a lot of money for three anonymous dudes.


320k usd is actually a small amount for a game on this scale, with the community features they're talking about, and these are what arena shooters need in this era of online gaming in order to become successful, as they well know. As for it looking like quake, if they want to make the best game they can make, why should they need to reinvent the wheel?

The developers may seem anonymous to you, but I've been following this project since the beginning, and the developers have stayed consistently true to their word and have obviously worked tirelessly to make this project happen. Moreover, I have been impressed by their positive and forward looking attitude, both in the ideas they come up with and their response to a crap ton of insults from all the people that just want to go back to 1999, and also the people in the community that want to get involved and help make something awesome; these guys don't talk crap, they just do what they've said they're going to do.

But still to outsiders it would look more serious to perhaps set a first goal to 200k USD with stretch goals for single player. Single player is a completely different beast than multiplayer and will require a lot of work that, in my opinion, could be skipped in favour of multiplayer if the choice had to be made. Now it's either multiplayer+singleplayer or nothing.
2014-09-22, 12:00
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101 posts

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Sep 2014
dimman wrote:
But still to outsiders it would look more serious to perhaps set a first goal to 200k USD with stretch goals for single player. Single player is a completely different beast than multiplayer and will require a lot of work that, in my opinion, could be skipped in favour of multiplayer if the choice had to be made. Now it's either multiplayer+singleplayer or nothing.


I'm pretty sure there's going to be no single player campaign as it is, due to the fact that they've never mentioned one.
2014-09-22, 13:17
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1021 posts

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Apr 2006
praxismo wrote:
dimman wrote:
But still to outsiders it would look more serious to perhaps set a first goal to 200k USD with stretch goals for single player. Single player is a completely different beast than multiplayer and will require a lot of work that, in my opinion, could be skipped in favour of multiplayer if the choice had to be made. Now it's either multiplayer+singleplayer or nothing.


I'm pretty sure there's going to be no single player campaign as it is, due to the fact that they've never mentioned one.

I think you'll have to look again then, because their official site has a big banner saying "SINGLEPLAYER + COOP" a bit down

EDIT: It's also mentioned on the kickstarter page as "SINGPLE PLAYER + CO-OP"
2014-09-22, 13:47
Member
458 posts

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Mar 2008
Looks good! Sent some money
2014-09-22, 14:18
News Writer
871 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
Rikoll wrote:
Looks good! Sent some money

Good stuff.

And there is no reason for people not to get behind this. If they don't hit the target then you don't get charged a cent.
2014-09-22, 14:26
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101 posts

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Sep 2014
dimman wrote:
praxismo wrote:
dimman wrote:
But still to outsiders it would look more serious to perhaps set a first goal to 200k USD with stretch goals for single player. Single player is a completely different beast than multiplayer and will require a lot of work that, in my opinion, could be skipped in favour of multiplayer if the choice had to be made. Now it's either multiplayer+singleplayer or nothing.


I'm pretty sure there's going to be no single player campaign as it is, due to the fact that they've never mentioned one.

I think you'll have to look again then, because their official site has a big banner saying "SINGLEPLAYER + COOP" a bit down

EDIT: It's also mentioned on the kickstarter page as "SINGPLE PLAYER + CO-OP"



They're probably referring to arena modes vs bots instead of a single player campaign.
2014-09-22, 15:25
Member
123 posts

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Mar 2006
praxismo wrote:
320k usd is actually a small amount for a game on this scale, with the community features they're talking about, and these are what arena shooters need in this era of online gaming in order to become successful, as they well know. As for it looking like quake, if they want to make the best game they can make, why should they need to reinvent the wheel?


Hey, I agree. I am in the first ten backers listed! ;-) I also spread the word a bit with posts around the web (such as this one).

Quote:
The developers may seem anonymous to you, but I've been following this project since the beginning, and the developers have stayed consistently true to their word and have obviously worked tirelessly to make this project happen. Moreover, I have been impressed by their positive and forward looking attitude, both in the ideas they come up with and their response to a crap ton of insults from all the people that just want to go back to 1999, and also the people in the community that want to get involved and help make something awesome; these guys don't talk crap, they just do what they've said they're going to do.


I also agree with this and have interacted with the developers. They aren't anonymous to me. My post was mostly about what concerns seem to come when I talk to friends to try and get them to back the project. Most of the guys I talked to are Quake players (maybe not super hardcore though). I'm a huge fan of the project. I just am a little upset because I think they botched the KS campaign. I feel bad because I wanted the project to succeed and it looks like it won't.

http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/191095869/reflex/#chart-daily
2014-09-22, 19:09
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871 posts

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Jan 2006
pg wrote:
I also agree with this and have interacted with the developers. They aren't anonymous to me. My post was mostly about what concerns seem to come when I talk to friends to try and get them to back the project. Most of the guys I talked to are Quake players (maybe not super hardcore though). I'm a huge fan of the project. I just am a little upset because I think they botched the KS campaign. I feel bad because I wanted the project to succeed and it looks like it won't.

http://www.kicktraq.com/projects/191095869/reflex/#chart-daily


I can't see it happening either. That figure is just too unrealistic. I increased my backing from $70 to $350 to try and help them get a bit closer but I doubt a cent will ever get taken from my credit card.
2014-09-22, 19:20
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123 posts

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Mar 2006
Feels like they've given up on the KS too. Their first update has no extra info or anything, instead they put the game on Greenlight.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=317361451
2014-09-22, 19:40
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101 posts

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Sep 2014
pg wrote:
Feels like they've given up on the KS too. Their first update has no extra info or anything, instead they put the game on Greenlight.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=317361451



They've updated the KS with some info about the devs and a currency table.
2014-09-22, 21:20
News Writer
619 posts

Registered:
Nov 2008
Been watching VoO play the pre alpha a bit but I don't really see how this is different from CPMA. From a Quakeworld point of view it'll probably be identical to CPMA, in other words a lackluster QuakeWorld
2014-09-23, 08:03
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101 posts

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Sep 2014
Andeh wrote:
in other words a lackluster QuakeWorld


haha as much as I like cpma, I can't disagree with that statement; qw definitely trumps it in every respect of gameplay that I demand from an fps.

I think what sets reflex apart from cpma will just be all of the community features: it's going to have steam workshop; the realtime multiplayer level editor; customisable skins; native tournament hosting available to any player; in game replay editor; a proper matchmaking system, and a lot more. One could argue that this stuff is not personally important, but the lack of all of these are the things that I think have made arena fps lag behind in this era of esports and help to tie a community together.
2014-09-23, 11:53
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871 posts

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Jan 2006
praxismo wrote:
haha as much as I like cpma, I can't disagree with that statement; qw definitely trumps it in every respect of gameplay that I demand from an fps.

I think what sets reflex apart from cpma will just be all of the community features: it's going to have steam workshop; the realtime multiplayer level editor; customisable skins; native tournament hosting available to any player; in game replay editor; a proper matchmaking system, and a lot more. One could argue that this stuff is not personally important, but the lack of all of these are the things that I think have made arena fps lag behind in this era of esports and help to tie a community together.

Very true. Everyone should get behind this anyway. Hopefully it can succeed where CPMA failed. If it doesn't reach the target you never get charged so there is no reason not to put in a pledge and hopefully get closer to goal.
2014-09-23, 13:05
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101 posts

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Sep 2014
dirtbox wrote:
praxismo wrote:
haha as much as I like cpma, I can't disagree with that statement; qw definitely trumps it in every respect of gameplay that I demand from an fps.

I think what sets reflex apart from cpma will just be all of the community features: it's going to have steam workshop; the realtime multiplayer level editor; customisable skins; native tournament hosting available to any player; in game replay editor; a proper matchmaking system, and a lot more. One could argue that this stuff is not personally important, but the lack of all of these are the things that I think have made arena fps lag behind in this era of esports and help to tie a community together.

Very true. Everyone should get behind this anyway. Hopefully it can succeed where CPMA failed. If it doesn't reach the target you never get charged so there is no reason not to put in a pledge and hopefully get closer to goal.


Yeh I agree, if it does manage to get popular then it could catalyse a resurgence in skill based movement being the basis of popular fps like it used to be, and help to spawn other games with such fluid mechanics, and it might help bring a few more people into qw that really appreciate it. My own route was such: bf3, cs:go, quakelive, cpma, qw; in time order starting from the first multiplayer fps I ever played. As I moved through those games I found more about the new title that I preferred to the last, as well as things that they shared in common that I had previously appreciated.

I've already pledged and if it goes ahead I'll be getting a custom spraytag of my own design, and if they'll allow it I already know what it's going to be: 'PLAY MORE QUAKEWORLD'.
2014-09-23, 14:14
News Writer
871 posts

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Jan 2006
A number of players came to QW after CPMA died... Maybe might happen again!

Also, I figure I won't be in EU for much longer... and QW is dead and buried there. Next best thing will be Reflex...
2014-09-23, 16:37
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6 posts

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Jan 2013
I just can't bring myself to agree to what is essentially "here's my money, thanks for your promise". Maybe if I was getting something substantial like immediate access to a currently running alpha if I made a donation today I could bring myself to part with my money, but until they make an offer of something similar I'll save my support for when they have something more complete to showcase.
2014-09-23, 17:26
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123 posts

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Mar 2006
Well if you go for the prototype level of backing you get access pretty damn soon, they estimate December or earlier.
2014-09-23, 19:18
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619 posts

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Nov 2008
While I agree that all those features are great, I wish they would adopt the gameplay from QW instead of from CPMA. I started out in CPMA and later moved to quakeworld. First thing they could do is remove the railgun and make maps quite small ;-)
2014-09-23, 20:57
Member
123 posts

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Mar 2006
Well, they did one update about game modes but it's the most basic thing ever -

https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/191095869/reflex/posts/994951

It is nice to hear some new modes are planned but again this is just more overview type information. For Kickstarters or Early Access you need to get real in depth with your communication because your fans are taking a big risk giving money for a product that doesn't exist. You can't just say "oh, it'll have great gameplay", you got to explain it as detailed as possible. They frankly don't sound passionate at all in their messaging. And they are still teasing us -

Quote:
6 planned powerups


Isn't it a little late to be holding back information as your KS fails?

I'm starting to believe they don't deserve any money at this rate and it seems like that's what they will get, nothing. The KS is being handled so badly it's a complete turn off. It makes me doubt they can pull off what they list as features because they can't even run a decent KS campaign. I also know now they think they need $360k to make a good game, so Steam Greenlight won't bring in enough. I doubt they can get away with asking $80 for prototype access on Steam.

I'm disappointed...
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