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European Quake League
2011-02-24, 19:00
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325 posts

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Jan 2006
Did clans signup this season to play or idle?
We are nearing the end of the SECOND week, and many teams didn't play a single game or only 1.
A lot of them give the reason "we wanna prac first before playing officials".

*** PUSSYWARNING ***

We have a whole season to play and especially in division 1 we have to play each other TWICE.
Even more reason not to delay so much.

So I ask again - did you join EQL to idle, or to play lots of exciting official games?

Also I hear some teams wanting to follow the schedule - excellent idea!
It's made for a reason. To encourage teams to play continuously throughout the season, instead of pushing all games to last few weeks.
And that bullshit reason the other teams give "since when is that a rule?" is just another attempt to be lame and say "we are afraid to play now cause we need more prac." You know what? it goes both ways, the other teams didn't get that much prac either.
But you are suppose to prac before and during season and not idle 3 months until several weeks AFTER the new season started.

Next week is about to start and each team should have played about 6-8 games by then. That's a lot of catching up.

I had some feedback from a few clans that started using doodle.com to see when their team could field 4 players.
It's a great and easy tool to quickly get a whole week overview of when you might be able to play - making it easier to schedule with other teams. And I can only recommend trying to follow the schedule.

Btw I think it actually IS a shame it is not a rule. Thought about a few suggestions.
Make each team put down 4 days a week they can play, so when the auto generator suggests gamedays there will always be overlaps and there should always be at least 1 day both teams can play.

Then if one team in a given site-generated scheduled match tries to arrange with other team but they don't wanna play.
The challening team will keep activity point for that match, but other team will not. So when that game is finally played at a later time, the team that tried to play within the given week gets an extra point - nomatter if they win or lose.

Should encourage teams to keep activity level higher during the season, and even if teams think they might be at a disadvantage early in the season - it would still cost them more overall to NOT play the games and lose those extra points.

It's something to think about for other tournaments, may it be 1on1/4on4, and hopefully something to think about for next season. Since I realize it's too late to implement now. I guess I was too naive again to think that teams would actually play active this season as well.
ready!
2011-02-24, 20:42
Administrator
2045 posts

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Jan 2006
Why not make it a hardcore play-or-die schedule like for EQLro? The amount of WO's would probably not be more than it currently is with this hippie system anyway.

Edit: Moved topic to EQL Forum.
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2011-02-25, 00:46
Member
366 posts

Registered:
Dec 2006
Problem with suggesting 4 days a week when teams can play is that it isn't always feasible, for example according to our doodle the only days we could play this week were Thursday and Sunday.
Some might suggest that if a clan can't play 4 days a week then they shouldn't be entering such leagues but in the modern QW scene we all know that for some clans and players all you can do is just turn up a couple of nights a week for EQL games. The alternative would be for these clans to not play at all which would arguably have more of a negative impact; if a clan doesn't enter the league then you have zero chance of playing them anyway!

Also you have the issue of times, I mean for many people being able to play on day X doesn't mean you can play 00:00-23:59, often it may only be a window of a couple of hours. Factor in timezones and it gets even trickier, for example say you had a uk/ie/pt clan that can play at say 20:00 local time, great, but that means 23:00 for most Russians. Technically speaking I can play nearly every day but almost never before 20cet on weekdays and often not until 23cet+

Then you'd get the situation where clans could be really sneaky and tactical with their 4 days, like for example lets say you know your rival clan tends to be best positioned to play at the weekend (maybe some superstar player is only available then), what you would do is make sure your 4 days were all weekdays, say Monday-Thursday. So the opponent chooses Friday-Sunday but still has to put down a 4th day to match your schedule.

To be honest I don't think there is a major problem currently, in recent seasons most games get played, activity doesn't really look any worse than old leagues like SD that initially tried to enforce a schedule of some description.
2011-02-25, 05:24
Administrator
325 posts

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Jan 2006
I disagree. As I said before, it's not like they don't have players, they do, they just don't wanna play "now".
This could be an additional motivator to get games going along during season and not always ending up with a huge backlog of games.
I'ts not like they will lose those games, they will just lose their activity points.
ready!
2011-02-25, 07:21
News Writer
1267 posts

Registered:
Jun 2007
It is a difference between not wanting to play and not being able to play.

I dont think Chosen would be able to say that we can play tues, wed, thur and sun every week.
Some weeks we might play only in tues and another week 2-4 evenings.

I think most clans try their best but when you have 4 you should really try to play eql and not prac. The scheduele is tight.
Chosen
2011-02-25, 08:04
Member
458 posts

Registered:
Mar 2008
I take it you're not talking about div1? There, every team apart from Fairy Tale have played 2 games or more each and are right on schedule, and even Fariy Tale have played one game. If you are talking about div1 I guess this could be concidered as a pointless whine post because some team denied to play vs you the first week or something.

If you're talking about div2, I could see your point. There only half the teams have even played a game even after 1 week.
2011-02-25, 09:33
Member
18 posts

Registered:
Sep 2007
At least we (FU) have been waiting to get this Diki thing solved so we can start playing. Dunno how long it is going to take.
2011-02-25, 09:35
News Writer
1267 posts

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Jun 2007
As far as i know Itsinen have told you that there will be no Diki. But you should perhaps check with him again to make sure.
Chosen
2011-02-25, 09:49
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Sep 2007
I refuse to call that "solving" so we will still be waiting.
2011-02-25, 09:54
News Writer
1267 posts

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Jun 2007
You must actively talk to Itsinen about this. Waiting will just mean that your clan will be idle the whole season.
Chosen
2011-02-25, 10:04
Member
57 posts

Registered:
Apr 2007
anza wrote:
At least we (FU) have been waiting to get this Diki thing solved so we can start playing. Dunno how long it is going to take.

Diki in div2? That's probably the funniest thing I've read the past year (for many reasons).

anza wrote:
I refuse to call that "solving" so we will still be waiting.

Even better. But yeah, wait. You're truly experts in that.
2011-02-25, 10:11
Member
18 posts

Registered:
Sep 2007
fed wrote:
anza wrote:
At least we (FU) have been waiting to get this Diki thing solved so we can start playing. Dunno how long it is going to take.

Diki in div2? That's probably the funniest thing I've read the past year (for many reasons).

Funnier than Scenic in div2? That only shows you don't really know crap about anything.
2011-02-25, 10:14
Member
61 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
Thats not nice! I would still love to play some qw even Im kind of busy and my connection is like the worst in Europe. I know I was late in joining some clan, sorry about that. But still with this tiny scene every player could be usefull to get some more activity.

Again I played one round with FU (vs cmt) and it was far from rape... Its kind of hard to play even in div2 with jumping 13-110 ping and pl. Actually I was sometimes a walking backpack.
I have played in div2 some years ago with Zoo and I bet I was a better player those days. Actually Milton has played in div2 too.

Would it be ok if I join some div1 clan then? But who the hell wants to have a lagging or walking backpack in the lineup? So basicly Im stuck. Cant play in div1 and you dont allow me to play in div2

I honestly believe that I woundt ruin div2. But also can see your (admins) point and fear that there will be more late addons.
2011-02-25, 10:39
Member
397 posts

Registered:
Feb 2006
High ping is not unplayable anymore now that we have antilag Be
2011-02-25, 10:50
News Writer
1267 posts

Registered:
Jun 2007
Personally i wouldnt play if i had shifting pings between 13-110. But if thats ok with you and your clan... Also if all you wanna do is play then there is also something called prac if the admins are impossible. You will have better connection again in 4-5 months?
Chosen
2011-02-25, 10:51
Member
61 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
Hagge: Haha You can try that with opening torrent and downloading so your ping jumps. Note that it must jump like 13 50 120 15 40 70 in cmd ping. Actually sometimes I cant even see enemy that kills me. With stable ping antilag helps but it doesnt work with changing ping. Also note that cl_earlypackets needs a stable ping to work too. So please dont post comments like that if you dont know about this specific problem.
2011-02-25, 10:59
Member
693 posts

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Jan 2006
Diki wrote:
Actually sometimes I cant even see enemy that kills me.

use sound bro ur getting shot in the back
2011-02-25, 11:07
News Writer
1267 posts

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Jun 2007
Or increase FOV
Chosen
2011-02-25, 11:09
Administrator
2045 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
...and now we get this thread on topic again, gentlemen.
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2011-02-25, 11:11
Member
18 posts

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Sep 2007
Hooraytio wrote:
Personally i wouldnt play if i had shifting pings between 13-110. But if thats ok with you and your clan... Also if all you wanna do is play then there is also something called prac if the admins are impossible. You will have better connection again in 4-5 months?

Yes and we have been praccing. But I don't want to drop us from EQL because of this although some of us feel it is ok... Official games would be nice to play for a change and we are one of the more active groups in the scene.
2011-02-25, 11:47
News Writer
1267 posts

Registered:
Jun 2007
I was talking about Diki specifically, not FU as a team.

The Diki issue will have to be discussed with Itsinen from now on.
Chosen
2011-02-25, 12:02
Member
61 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
Hooraytio wrote:
Personally i wouldnt play if i had shifting pings between 13-110. But if thats ok with you and your clan... Also if all you wanna do is play then there is also something called prac if the admins are impossible. You will have better connection again in 4-5 months?

Yep... This is just a temporary apartment and I have to move out before September.

But still Im wondering whats the real problem since there are already better players in div2 than me. And better clans than FU with me even I had zero ping
2011-02-25, 12:37
Member
18 posts

Registered:
Sep 2007
-- content removed by admin --

Forum rules wrote:
Don't be abusive or provocative towards other users. If you have a problem with a particular user, make sure you keep it off this forum.

EDIT by Renzo 25.2.2011 19:48:

Anza gets a warning for making a personal insult. Remember the rules, no direct insults or abusive behaviour towards other users.
2011-02-25, 13:08
News Writer
619 posts

Registered:
Nov 2008
Anza calm down or the only thing you achieve is recieving warnings on the forums.

I really see your point of view... I'm not sure why Diki wouldn't be able to play in div2. For one thing, he is indeed a div1 player by heart. But what happens to div1 players who lost their teams and no team in div1 wants him/most teams are full? Is the div1 lone player supposed to miss out on the season completely when he actually wants to play?

In my opinion I'm not sure the ping thingy matters much to me. Even if Diki were in top shape and lowping, I think he should have the right to play somewhere anyway.

The only thing that pops up in my head is: Imagine a standard NHL player, not a big star but definetly not a bad player. He does what he has to do for his team and he is a keeper. However, one day, he gets traded or sold to some team in swedish Allsvenskan, which would be the second league (div2). Now, of course, this team isn't moved up to Elitserien just because of that, is it? Perhaps this is a bad comparison but all in all, I think Diki should play somewhere anyway. We want every player we can get!

About the ORIGINAL topic: gogo paraflax!! på dem bara!

@Everyone: play more games!!

/andeh
2011-02-25, 13:24
Member
693 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
Looking at stats.qw.nu I can certainly see arguments both ways for Diki being added to FU. For example, last night they won some maps vs DC without Diki in the line-up. But on other occasions they have lost to current division 2 teams. Overall I don't think adding him will make them too strong and will certainly not make them much stronger than KOFF. If KOFF are the strongest team in the division (and it certainly looks that way so far) then they should be the benchmark for the upper limit when considering transfer.

I have sympathy for the admins on these kind of things. I have been in this exact situation myself and I know full well that you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.
2011-02-25, 13:42
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18 posts

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Sep 2007
gaz wrote:
Looking at stats.qw.nu I can certainly see arguments both ways for Diki being added to FU. For example, last night they won some maps vs DC without Diki in the line-up. But on other occasions they have lost to current division 2 teams. Overall I don't think adding him will make them too strong and will certainly not make them much stronger than KOFF. If KOFF are the strongest team in the division (and it certainly looks that way so far) then they should be the benchmark for the upper limit when considering transfer.

I have sympathy for the admins on these kind of things. I have been in this exact situation myself and I know full well that you are damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Well Gaz the thing about Koff is that they get the "misplaced team" label here so admins don't have to use them for comparison purposes. Neat huh? Like they didn't know how strong Koff would be. Also, adding Diki to FU actually is supported by many other Div2 teams so I'm not sure where that "damned if you don't" is referring to.
2011-02-25, 14:22
Member
693 posts

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Jan 2006
Well there's at least one person who disagrees in this very thread. There must be others.

Most sensible people didn't have a problem with Fix & In A Blaze in division 3 in EQL11, but there were still people who complained.
2011-02-25, 16:33
Administrator
1021 posts

Registered:
Apr 2006
There some simple explanations about the Diki issue and Koff:

1. Koff has been either inactive or div2 material for like the last 4 seasons of EQL.
2. This season, they would most likely fit in to current div1, as with FT and DC yes, when looking at it afterwards.
3. We did a mistake about KOFF as it looks like, we agree on that, but ->
4. Correct one mistake with making another doesn't solve anything.

So we judged that FU with its best 3 player (including persu) + diki would be a bit too much.

We've heard a lot of different reasons for why we should allow a player addition:
- So it might be ping that is bad
- The player is to be really inactive
- He won't play at his best...

But it all sums up to: That's nothing we could take into consideration, with the simple explanation: There is no specific player rules.
The ping might stabilize, the player might decide to become active or just play at his best... What then? Remove him again? No.

But as always, that some people tend to not understand. It's not linear science. One team performing really bad one week, tend
to perform really good another week. And also, especially in the lower divs, some teams improve a lot more than others throughout the season.

Afterall, it is a competition, and teams will be judged after their best lineup and performance at the time. Hence why it's really hard to place a team with a big variety in player skills.
2011-02-25, 17:31
Member
18 posts

Registered:
Sep 2007
Fog, actually nobody's not demanding anything as regards to Koff. The only question that arose from their placement was that it seemed if admins didn't care about their strength. But now it seems you just didn't know who these guys are.
2011-02-25, 17:45
Member
3 posts

Registered:
Mar 2010
well if ok98 can play in CSN and Locktar in m44, you can spread many div1 players to div2 teams. in this case diki could join to fu aswell.
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