User panel stuff on forum
  27 posts on 1 page  1
Advanced Configuration
2009-04-21, 17:40
Member
685 posts

Registered:
Jul 2007
I was testing to play with all these different mouserates I read about here, and I did change them in safe mode etc, as recommended. I used that mouserate tool from the smooth quake wiki page.

After successfully using 250hz, I played against bots for a while with 500hz and then, when I got used to the new feel, I joined on xs4all. Amazing to experience and very easy to out-aim people, especially with shaft.

Then it happened.....after couple of minutes of successful playing, I got weird 'stops' in mouse-movement. It temporarily played 'dead'. I quit quake, and went back to 125hz again, but the mouse kept malfunctioning like that... it moved fine for a couple of secs and then went 'dead' again. This happened for a while on and off, and now it doesn't move my cursor at all anymore.

When I move it fast after I use my other mouse, windows gives a pop-up msg "usb device not recognized" and goes on explaining that the device malfunctioned. I unplugged the mouse, put it back in, tried different usb ports, power-cycled the pc....nothing. It's dead. Great.... now I can't Quake at all anymore.





Anyone with similar experiences??? I don't really want to quit quake, especially now I finally got the feel for it, but I also think it's so fucking sad that this is apparently why some of these guys out there are better, because of their hardware settings. This is the aspect of gaming I really don't like.
2009-04-21, 18:54
Member
12 posts

Registered:
Feb 2008
I whould try this

Set rate back to 125hz, remove mouse drivers, go in to system/hardware find mouse, right click and pick remove then restart

What os and what mouserate program did u use?
2009-04-21, 19:47
Member
685 posts

Registered:
Jul 2007
I never used the mouse drivers for the mx518. So what u suggested I kind of already did (unplug mouse, restart, etc)

os: winxp
prog: http://www.softpedia.com/get/Tweak/System-Tweak/USB-Mouserate-switcher.shtml
2009-04-21, 20:13
Member
12 posts

Registered:
Feb 2008
Maby try 60130-usbtwkr.rar the only program i can get to work with xp sp3

http://files.filefront.com/60130+usbtwkrrar/;10952837;/fileinfo.html
2009-04-21, 20:48
Member
685 posts

Registered:
Jul 2007
The mouse is DEAD, it doesn't respond AT ALL, no matter what the usb port is set at. No movement, no buttons....nothing. It only still give red light, that's it.

No program is gonna fix that. I think the rate switching has damaged the optical sensor. What I don't understand is why that happened to me and not to other ppl...
2009-04-21, 21:00
Member
1433 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
Or it's only a coincidence and the mouse died in the same moment (a little after) you did the overclocking only because it was broken anyway. Return it in the shop where you bought it, ask for a new one.
2009-04-22, 04:29
Member
252 posts

Registered:
Dec 2006
yep, coincidence imo, tried it in another pc?
'on 120 ping i have beaten mortuary dirtbox and reload' (tm) mz adrenalin
'i watched sting once very boring and not good at all' (tm) mz adrenalin
[i]'i shoulda won all
2009-04-22, 04:59
Member
569 posts

Registered:
Feb 2006
my first mx518 showed the same symptoms. But it was The cord glitching.

Had no problems geting it replaced and I heard logitech usualy replaces mice with almost no questions asked.
2009-04-22, 09:23
News Writer
1267 posts

Registered:
Jun 2007
my mx500 died like this and now ive got the mx518 instead, so far no problems
Chosen
2009-04-22, 09:41
Member
685 posts

Registered:
Jul 2007
I haven't tried it in another pc yet and I dont' really know why I would, cause it just should work on this one as my other mouses also still work.

To be honest, I don't believe in coincidence, especially not because as a I played longer with the increased polling rate, the mouse behaved worse suddenly until it didn't respond at all anymore, as I described.

I don't really want to overdrive my usb ports and that's why I'm thinking about getting the g5 v2 (2007), because it's made for a higher polling rate itself which can be changed in the driver without overdriving all other usb ports too, if I understand correctly. Or do you still need to overdrive the usb port manually as well?

I know ppl see the mx518 as the superior mouse, but I know a happy g5 user in qw and I would like a mouse with similar ergonomic design (so no Razor for me).
2009-04-22, 09:45
Member
9 posts

Registered:
Jun 2006
i'm gonna overclock my mx518 now, i'll let you know how i go
2009-04-22, 09:54
Member
685 posts

Registered:
Jul 2007
I meant if you can do it with the mousedriver itself, so that ONLY the mouse is at 500hz while keeping the other usb ports standard (125hz).
2009-04-22, 10:29
Member
1433 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
No point in doing that, both the mouse and the port must run at 500 Hz. If your port runs at 125 Hz, you'll be getting 125 Hz updates. I'm not HW expert or anything, but AFAIK the device sends the updates as often as bus clock signal ticks, that's why you don't have to explicitly tell any mice to run at 500 Hz, you just overclock the USB ports and they'll adopt to it.
wiki wrote:
The host controller directs traffic flow to devices, so no USB device can transfer any data on the bus without an explicit request from the host controller. In USB 2.0, host controller polls the bus for traffic...

If your mice failed on adopting to 500 Hz, it was crap, USB overclocking is done for quite some time now.

What's the point of keeping "other ports" on 125 Hz? (not saying it's even possible, I kinda doubt it) Only if you had some other USB device that doesn't handle 500 Hz it'd make sense (I haven't heard of any so far, maybe some scanners?)

BTW to imagine, what's needed, some mice always run at 125 Hz, so even if you overclock USB port to 500 Hz, you'll be getting 125 Hz updates from them.
2009-04-22, 10:37
Member
229 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
Impossible to kill a mouse using 500 hz The 518 can handle that without ANY problems...
2009-04-22, 10:49
Member
271 posts

Registered:
Feb 2006
The thing about USB is that the device has to be capable of servicing the usb bus at 1000hz.

Low rates are the default so other devices are not starved, rather than due to hardware limitations.

'Your mouse corrupts my hard drive' is all too real a possible situation. Windows corrupts USB devices really really easily.

USB specs mandate a 10% reserve of the bus's capability so hard drives etc don't die.

But the main thing is that if you have a 500hz mouse plugged into the same usb root hub as an HD, your HD just lost half of its max transfer rate due to the host polling the mouse instead of reading from the disk. Mice use interrupt endpoints. These take priority over bulk. So yes, quite easy to kill a harddrive that uses bulk, or an ethernet.
Plug two mice in, both running at 500hz, and your usb bus will be fully saturated.
There's no real reason why a high rate would kill a mouse.
Mice are generally easy to break. They're bashed about as you turn, you're constantly clicking on stuff, rotating the mousewheel etc, dead skin often finds its way into the interior of the mouse too. And on top of that, you're constantly pulling on its power/data cable!
My mice generally last about 3 years before they become unusable.
moo
2009-04-22, 11:41
Member
685 posts

Registered:
Jul 2007
Spike wrote:
My mice generally last about 3 years before they become unusable.

I have to check, but I had my mouse for a bout a year or so. That's a bit short for it to die don't you think? Especially because it always worked perfectly fine until I messed with the rate.
2009-04-22, 11:45
Member
685 posts

Registered:
Jul 2007
JohnNy_cz wrote:
No point in doing that, both the mouse and the port must run at 500 Hz. If your port runs at 125 Hz, you'll be getting 125 Hz updates. I'm not HW expert or anything, but AFAIK the device sends the updates as often as bus clock signal ticks, that's why you don't have to explicitly tell any mice to run at 500 Hz, you just overclock the USB ports and they'll adopt to it.
wiki wrote:
The host controller directs traffic flow to devices, so no USB device can transfer any data on the bus without an explicit request from the host controller. In USB 2.0, host controller polls the bus for traffic...

If your mice failed on adopting to 500 Hz, it was crap, USB overclocking is done for quite some time now.

What's the point of keeping "other ports" on 125 Hz? (not saying it's even possible, I kinda doubt it) Only if you had some other USB device that doesn't handle 500 Hz it'd make sense (I haven't heard of any so far, maybe some scanners?)

BTW to imagine, what's needed, some mice always run at 125 Hz, so even if you overclock USB port to 500 Hz, you'll be getting 125 Hz updates from them.

Yes, I kind of realized that after I posted... the usb port must deliver 500hz itself, no matter what the mouse-driver is set at.

The point of keeping other ports on 125hz, on top of what Spike said, is that the CPU most work harder, so you'll loose performance and have more electricity usage.
2009-04-22, 11:55
Member
685 posts

Registered:
Jul 2007
Hey another thing, what if I overdrive my ps2 port? I read that it can be overdriven to 200hz. I guess that wouldn't affect usb ports at all right? But I also think you can't make use of optimal dpi settings when using ps2 (not sure).
2009-04-22, 12:30
Member
345 posts

Registered:
Feb 2006
Just RMA the mouse and be done with it. As other's have said, Logitech will almost certainly exchange your mouse for a new one. I too, believe it's a coincedence. The first thing you learn in a statistics class is that corellation does not imply causation.
2009-04-22, 13:24
Member
792 posts

Registered:
Feb 2006
^that's a funny double post

megalodon, i didn't even know they had optical mice for ps/2. or do you plan on turbo-boosting some old ball-mouse?
2009-04-22, 13:45
Member
685 posts

Registered:
Jul 2007
No deus, but you got can still use ur usb mouse in a ps2 port with the proper connector.

Anyway, I went to the store and the took the mouse back and I went for a g5 v2 (2007).

The good thing: it DOES have 500hz rate INDEPENDENTLY from your usb port setting. Don't ask me how, but I've double checked this. My usb ports are still at 125hz, but the mouseratechecker program indicates that ONLY the g5 moves at 500hz, which is pretty neat.

The bad thing: the mouse totally screws up my strafejumping movement. I'm not sure yet if it's the mousepad, which is an xraypad thunder 8 (plastic). I'm thinking about going back to the shop again and switch it with a new mx518 and get my 20,- back (G5 is more expensive).

UPDATE: I installed the setpoint drivers from cd and messed around with the rates. Seems that 333hz is quite nice. Switching rates is a breeze with this mouse. Movement is a lot better too, but not as good yet as with mx518. I think I might keep the G5 since it's made for higher rates I think it will last longer.
2009-04-22, 15:35
Member
33 posts

Registered:
Aug 2008
HEY
I've got an MX500 and those weird "stops" when playing...
already decreased the rate to 250mhz
2009-04-22, 21:08
Member
685 posts

Registered:
Jul 2007
I tweaked setpoint stuff and got the g5 working fine at 500hz. I think it's a keeper, especially cause only the mouse is at 500hz, the rest of the usb is not. Oh and my movement is kind of back to normal too

The cool thing is that you can also set your own dpi, not just switch to different dpi's but to really cusomize the amount of dpi. So to make it similar as the mx518, I put it on 1600dpi with 500hz and raised my sensitivity to 4 instead of 3 and it feels great.
2009-05-31, 13:22
Member
12 posts

Registered:
Feb 2008
Its not possibel that ur mouse runs at 500hz if the usb port runs at 125hz, thats common sence. The mousecheker program is from 1998 and u cant really trust in that stoneage program. The best way to check ur mouse hz is are.. start ezquake, join a server, go to options, crontrols, enable direct input and dinput smoothing and type m_showrate 1
2009-05-31, 19:17
Member
142 posts

Registered:
Nov 2006
Face wrote:
Its not possibel that ur mouse runs at 500hz if the usb port runs at 125hz, thats common sence. The mousecheker program is from 1998 and u cant really trust in that stoneage program. The best way to check ur mouse hz is are.. start ezquake, join a server, go to options, crontrols, enable direct input and dinput smoothing and type m_showrate 1

I have a G5, and without installing setpoint software it is working at 500hz without any hacks to usbport, using mousechecker, m_showrate 1 with in_mouse 2 or any other software, always reports 500hz. If i set it a 250hz screen gets pretty unsmooth so i at least "think" it is working at 500hz. I'll leave the asnwer to the experts.
2009-05-31, 20:35
Member
685 posts

Registered:
Jul 2007
Face wrote:
Its not possibel that ur mouse runs at 500hz if the usb port runs at 125hz, thats common sence. The mousecheker program is from 1998 and u cant really trust in that stoneage program. The best way to check ur mouse hz is are.. start ezquake, join a server, go to options, crontrols, enable direct input and dinput smoothing and type m_showrate 1

I have done that and it shows 500hz and the port itself is NOT overclocked.
2009-05-31, 21:38
Administrator
2048 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
I also recognise the symptoms you describe in your first post, so i wouldn't say it's the overclock that's the reason.
www.facebook.com/QuakeWorld
  27 posts on 1 page  1