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QuakeWorld Duel League
2009-01-15, 19:35
Member
173 posts

Registered:
Jun 2008
I know the end of season 1 was a bit of a let down (or fking shit, depending on your POV) and I know some of it was my fault.

The thing is though, what can be done to improve QWDL?

One thing that I am leaning towards is Mushi's(?) idea of having Div 0 7th plays Div 1 3rd for the a spot in Div 0. The poll that we did (http://www.quakeworld.nu/forum/viewpoll.php?id=3341) doesn't really mean anything (17 votes from over 200 players). I think that it would add a bit of excitement and more importantly mark the end of the season. I think we should do it for all divs over a weekend of heaven for specs with fixed timeslots. Something like the bottom half of the divs play on Saturday with the top divs playing on Sunday (building up over the day to the div0/1 match in the evening).

Another thing that might help is to get rid of the postponement rules and just say that players get 2 weeks to play and then the W/O would be given (I didn't like the idea of this because it doesn't actually matter when matches are played but it would make the admin side of things ALOT easier).

Any other ideas, PLEASE post.
2009-01-15, 20:13
News Writer
646 posts

Registered:
Mar 2006
The only idea I remember having was the winner of each div automatically moves up one div, and if someone won 0 games in the div, they should go one div down
2009-01-15, 20:54
News Writer
169 posts

Registered:
Dec 2007
Personally I think top 3 should move up, having player 1 move up 3 divs, player 2, 2 divs, and player 3, 1 div. Same thing for bottom 3 in every div.
As it is now, if someone starts to prac really much from the top players in say div 5 they might get to the skill level of beating div0 players but only move up 1 div anyway.
2009-01-15, 21:34
Member
173 posts

Registered:
Jun 2008
I should have said, with regards to promotion / demotion it will currently be 2 up / 2 down. There will be some exceptions (like if bandit (http://qwdl.geeky.cc/Players/Bandit) signs up again, he will prolly jump from 10 to 8 bc he pretty much owned everyone in his div). With 2 up / 2 down that will only leave 6 players from the previous season.

I like phil's idea of dropping anyone that doesn't win a single map tho.
2009-01-16, 00:09
Member
382 posts

Registered:
Apr 2006
What about making them best of 5 if it's just a straight league system with no playoffs. One of them per week isn't really too much of a time commitment, and it makes for a more interesting competition.

btw, http://qwdl.geeky.cc/ leads to a 404 page.
2009-01-16, 00:43
Administrator
1021 posts

Registered:
Apr 2006
Pointdeduction for not keeping schedule is BG imo.

People getting WO's getting full points?
2009-01-16, 09:58
Member
132 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
fog wrote:
Pointdeduction for not keeping schedule is BG imo.

People getting WO's getting full points?

yes... it's not their fault that the opponent was not able to play
MAGNUM 44
2009-01-16, 15:14
Member
250 posts

Registered:
Jul 2007
fog wrote:
Pointdeduction for not keeping schedule is BG imo.

That's the best part overall.
2009-01-17, 04:09
Administrator
1021 posts

Registered:
Apr 2006
So because I could get an opponent to play a game, but later than scheduled, I get pointdeductions from that game, when another guy can't get him to play and get full points?
2009-01-17, 17:16
Member
250 posts

Registered:
Jul 2007
Thx NeFuRii.
2009-01-20, 19:51
Member
173 posts

Registered:
Jun 2008
NeFuRii was right. There are three ways that the postponement gets calculated...

1. A player can't play and postpones for x weeks.
2. An admin postpones the game on behalf of one of the players.
3. The system automagically postpones (this basically works by keeping track of how many days in the week each player was logged in for and postpones on behalf of the player that logged in less - if both players logged in the same amount of times, the postponement is on behalf on both players).

I'm happy with the theory of postponements but the reality is a little different.

Personally, I think that next season should work like this:

1. The admins should just give a W/O after 2 weeks to whomever deserves it most.
2. An exception would be that if both players agree to a postponement, then that can arranged by an admin.
3. All matches would have to be played (or W/Os given) before the playoff weekend.

This would have a couple of advantages - the players wouldn't have to wait until someone gets round to doing the W/Os to see the final standings as they would be visible as soon as the season ends (playoff weekend) and it would be much easier for the admins to look after (give a few W/Os each week rather than spend about 20 hours sorting through a season's worth).

I would value input on this from everyone!

Cheers
2009-01-20, 20:11
Member
4 posts

Registered:
May 2008
fog has a very good point, but that shouldn't be a problem with Grump's newly proposed rules right?

The new proposed rules seem much better, but honestly I'm fine as long as WOs and deducted points aren't given based on whoever has more logins, I think that's where the problem with this season were. It was a good idea, but didn't hold all the way IMO.
2009-01-21, 11:18
Administrator
1021 posts

Registered:
Apr 2006
I'm ending up in 4th place, with more wins than anyone else in my div.. I did talk to admins about the pointdeductions afterwards, that i've missed that part. But
was told it was to late to change...

2ppl have 3 wins and 2 losses = 24p
1ppl have 4 wins and 2 losses = 24p
I got 5 wins and 2 losses = 22.55p

I think I'm not the only one feeling I don't have time to look for admins and complain, or logging on to the webpage and reschedule every time someone can't play at a certain time or if I can't get a hold of the guy, Especially when participating in EQL at the same time trying to run a clan and fix everything there. The rules made were just too serious...

New rules, I'm up for that. It doesn't feel that very motivating to participate as it is atm.
2009-01-21, 13:28
Member
130 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
I hope you guys realize that the results of the many of the divisions are totally fucked up. There are just so many people who have played couple of matches and the rest are WOs.

I guess this doesn't really matter to most people, since who cares about the results of the league which ended ages ago. But you do need to realize that these results are mostly not suited at all for seeding the next QWDL season.
2009-01-21, 13:54
Member
1433 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
This is a league for +200 people, don't expect that admins will treat everyone's problems individually.

It's not ok if majority of the players play their matches in like last week, some rules really need to be there. And if you are not able to report anyhow what caused the delay, well, sorry.
2009-01-21, 19:57
Member
173 posts

Registered:
Jun 2008
Medar wrote:
I hope you guys realize that the results of the many of the divisions are totally fucked up. There are just so many people who have played couple of matches and the rest are WOs.

Shit happens. It is not fair to penalise a player if the other one didn't show which is why they get full points for W/O. If you have a better way of doing it, create your own league, post something constructive or STFU.

Medar wrote:
...you do need to realize that these results are mostly not suited at all for seeding the next QWDL season.

You need to realise that there is no other data from which we can seed players.


The results from season one will give us a much better idea of where to place players in the next season - it still won't be perfect (there will still be rapes) but skills will be closer than last season.

This was all discussed before the league started, including the fact that from now on, all divs will have 10 players (so the divs will not resemble the current divs at all - although some players will still be in the same div).
2009-01-21, 20:16
Member
792 posts

Registered:
Feb 2006
i like the promotion system and the whole mini-divs idea. i think this system will show its benefits over time so i'm looking forward to another season. data will be more reliable after more than 1 season as well.
2009-01-21, 20:22
Member
130 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
Grump wrote:
Shit happens. It is not fair to penalise a player if the other one didn't show which is why they get full points for W/O. If you have a better way of doing it, create your own league, post something constructive or STFU.

Glad to see you worked on your social skills while you were away.

I'm certainly not advocating giving less than full points for WO. And I'm not trying to blame you for bad results for season 1. I'm just saying that those results are wrong (in many divisions), and it's better to ignore them when making divisions for the next season. The data that can be used is the matches that actually were played.

For example: Don't use the fact that Kraner was second in division 17. Use the results from the only two games he played and lost.

If you want to fix the end results (as far as it's possible with so much inactivity), you must remove players that didn't play enough games. For example panic only played one game vs. witka and gave WO to everyone else. Now because he won that game witka is essentially penalized for playing and is losing points compared to other active players in his division. And there are LOTS of examples like that, including Irvin in my division that only played one of the top4 active players, fog, and beat him. Now fog became 4th instead of 1st in the division simply because the three other active and good players got WOs from Irvin.
2009-01-21, 21:02
Member
173 posts

Registered:
Jun 2008
Medar wrote:
Glad to see you worked on your social skills while you were away.

Hehehe of course not, I'm still a grumpy sob ;-)

Medar wrote:
The data that can be used is the matches that actually were played.

I totally agree with this one however it becomes a bit difficult to automate that (so the admins will just have to use a little common sense).

Medar wrote:
If you want to fix the end results (as far as it's possible with so much inactivity), you must remove players that didn't play enough games.

Nice one! This has been suggested before but I forgot all about it. I will add it to the system so that points relating to a player can just be removed from the div (keeping match data, demos, etc).

EDIT: In fact, does anyone have any opinions about this happening retrospectively (ie applying it to season 1's results)?
2009-01-22, 00:18
Member
250 posts

Registered:
Jul 2007
Grump wrote:
EDIT: In fact, does anyone have any opinions about this happening retrospectively (ie applying it to season 1's results)?

No. Go on and remove those with too few played matches.
2009-01-22, 05:55
Member
184 posts

Registered:
May 2007
I already thought about this before last season. What about harsher penalties. If, lets say the first 2 or 3 weeks are over and players havent played a game they get kicked for the season and a ban for the next one. I would also ban players for one season who sign up and in the end only play 4 or 5 games in total (10 players per div). By this you have a solid database and those who return from their ban could be fit in manually.

I think this will smaller the amount of attendees, but those who attand will play their games and wont have a hard time to find their opponents.

Remember Grump how shitty all the seeding for the first season was. Do you want to do this before every season?

We should encourage those who want to play and penalize those who waste the time of other players and the admins
2009-01-22, 09:22
Administrator
1841 posts

Registered:
Feb 2006
word!
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