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QuakeWorld Duel League
2008-10-22, 19:52
Member
184 posts

Registered:
May 2007
All good things must come to an end. This rule applies to the first season of the QWDL as well. But where a first season is a second one is not far away. With just 2 weeks left to play for the regular divisions and 4 for the big ones, we have to think about the upcoming season. So this is where we need you guys once again. Please vote how long the break should be between the seasons. Please keep in mind, that a too short break could result in players signing up and turning inactive. Too long breaks could result in people losing interesst. So take a moment to think about it.

Furthermore we would like to ask you to give feedback about the homepage, rules, misplaced players, admins, coverage, pointsystem and everything else that pops up to your mind. Tell us what you like and what you don't like. Plase try to explain in full sentences and give reasons, and refrain from the "this sux you n00bs" statements. We already got those enough before the season started.
2008-10-22, 21:48
Member
130 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
Overall QWDL has been great. It has made QW's duel scene very active. Kudos!

The match scheduling system has worked surprisingly well, and it's awesome. Of course it really should be in CET, but you already knew that.

There should be playoffs. Sure it probably won't make the best guy winning any more probable, maybe even less likely, but it does make things more exciting. It is nice to have that clear highlight of the season, both for players and spectators. There is also the added benefit that if you lose to someone early in the regular season you can still hope to pay him back in the playoffs.

Too many divisions. I think that, even after the extra data coming from season 1, it will be very hard to create divisions so that you can confidently say that players in div 11 are better than those in div 12 for example. I would rather see subdivisions, like div 5A and div 5B. Different divisions could have different amount of subdivisions depending on how many people have approximately the same skill level. This would work very nicely with playoffs too, with top players from different subdivisions battling it out in the end.

I think the playing schedule should be slightly faster than 1 game per week, maybe something like 3 games per 2 weeks would be better. Although I might be wrong and it could be too hard for people who can only play on weekends etc.

You should probably warn and start kicking inactive people from the league when half of the time has passed or something like that.

Attitude of the admins sucks. It would give much better impressions if, instead of being very hostile, you could simply ignore comments that you think aren't constructive etc.

edit:
Point system. I don't think giving points for winning one map is a good idea. Why should barely winning one map and then getting totally owned in two maps be more valuable than barely losing two maps? IMO it should be only about winning the match. Plus the current system gives too much value for just knowing one map really well.
2008-10-23, 07:34
Member
1099 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
I need to get put at least 2 divisions down I think.
2008-10-23, 10:58
Member
569 posts

Registered:
Feb 2006
Medar wrote:
edit:
Point system. I don't think giving points for winning one map is a good idea. Why should barely winning one map and then getting totally owned in two maps be more valuable than barely losing two maps? IMO it should be only about winning the match. Plus the current system gives too much value for just knowing one map really well.

Its only 1 point, compared to 3 points for victory. Winning a map means that you are better on atleast a 1/5 of the maps (Possibly 2). so being awarded 1/4 of the points at stake is fair. I would rather have seen this system.

2-0 = 4pts
2-1 = 3pts
1-2 = 2pts.
0-2 = 1pts.
WO = 0pts.

One could turn it the other way around: It should cost something to be bad on 1 (possibly 2 maps) in the pool.
2008-10-23, 16:03
Member
250 posts

Registered:
Jul 2007
I would like to have closer fixed dates, like Saturday to Monday, i.e. three days. Who cannot play then loses. I'm tired to run after or serach for opponents.
2008-10-23, 19:12
Member
184 posts

Registered:
May 2007
I havent talked to the other admins, but I think it is pretty sure that there will be no subdivisions and no play offs. Most admins agreed on that before everything started. Single divisions in which you can promote or demote is one of the basic concepts of this whole project. So if nothing fundamental changes, there will be nothing along those lines.

About the "too many divisions" issue. I know it looks ridiculous to have 25 divisions. But I am pretty sure that if you have 15 or more players in one division the activity will drop dramatically in the end of the season. Less people per division means shorter seasons. People who dont want to play anymore can play the remaining games and take a break for a season and dont annoy that much players who want to keep playing.

I agree to a certain extend that we should increase the games per week. The problem is that if you penalize players they get frustrated and refuse to play at all (already happend this season), but generally I am totally with you on this point. And I definitly agree with you Medar that players who havent played a single game after, lets say 4 weeks, should be kicked.

I personally like the point system, because it is very "positive". If you win, you get 4 points no matter what. If you manage to get a map you get 2 points. I think thats pretty fair, because there are also cases where all 3 maps were pretty close and I think it is good to reward a player who was capable of winning one map.

Last but not least, the attitude of the admins. I know to what incident you are refering there. And I have to say, that this happend at a time where everybody was really stressed, because it was at the peak of preperation for the first season. And that this argument went out of hand was not only the fault of the admins. From what I have experienced all conversations between admins and players were pretty relaxed.

Thx for the input so far and keep it coming
2008-10-23, 20:38
Member
1433 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
Suggestion: move the players for next season A LOT. It looks I'm going to end in the middle of my div and I don't want to play with the very same people in the next season. Maybe move the winner 3 divs higher, who ended 2nd goes 2 divs higher, 3rd one div higher and vice versa for people who ended last. It's 25 divs so going 3 divs higher/lower isn't that big.

Also consider a way to avoid "high ping" divisions, this season some divs had (by bad luck) high amount of .pt and .ru players, it'd be better to spread them among more divs to have high variety of opponents (ping-wise) in each div.

BTW this is my 666th post *evil*
2008-10-23, 20:46
Member
130 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
nix wrote:
I havent talked to the other admins, but I think it is pretty sure that there will be no subdivisions and no play offs. Most admins agreed on that before everything started. Single divisions in which you can promote or demote is one of the basic concepts of this whole project. So if nothing fundamental changes, there will be nothing along those lines.

Fair enough. Although I personally don't see the advantages of this system in the case of QW. The activity of different players changes so much etc. Hopefully I'm wrong though.

edit: One benefit of subdivisions I didn't mention earlier is the ability to mix them. If you go by simple promotions/demotions most people will play with the same people over and over again even if there is big pool of people with similar skill level.

nix wrote:
About the "too many divisions" issue. I know it looks ridiculous to have 25 divisions. But I am pretty sure that if you have 15 or more players in one division the activity will drop dramatically in the end of the season.

Yeah, I wouldn't want more than 10 players in single divisions if it's round-robin system.

nix wrote:
I personally like the point system, because it is very "positive". If you win, you get 4 points no matter what. If you manage to get a map you get 2 points. I think thats pretty fair, because there are also cases where all 3 maps were pretty close and I think it is good to reward a player who was capable of winning one map.

Actually I was confusing QWDL and EQL point systems. Since winning gets you 4 and losing 1-2 only 2 points it's probably fine. This will be easier to think about when the season is over and you see how different scoring systems would have changed things.
2008-10-24, 08:33
Member
569 posts

Registered:
Feb 2006
JohnNy_cz wrote:
Suggestion: move the players for next season A LOT. It looks I'm going to end in the middle of my div and I don't want to play with the very same people in the next season. Maybe move the winner 3 divs higher, who ended 2nd goes 2 divs higher, 3rd one div higher and vice versa for people who ended last. It's 25 divs so going 3 divs higher/lower isn't that big.
*

I agree with this. Wtih some exceptions here and there.
Loser of div0 should only be moved down to div1 for example.


I also like the idea of div0A and div0B, div1B div2B. But Playoffs in div0 (semi-finals+final or final only).
With this system, It would probably be enough to move 1 or 2 players per division. And i dont think the skillgap will be to big between best and worst player, which would be the case of current 4v4 for example.
2008-10-24, 10:04
Member
184 posts

Registered:
May 2007
I dont see a necassity to move players more then one division to avoid playing the same people over and over again. There are eight players in a regular division (including yourself) the two at the top promote, the two at the bottom demote, leaving four core players (again including yourself). This means that u will play against three old players and four new ones in the next season. I dont see that that as playing the same people over and over again. If you promote the top player of a division by two or even three it could result in a serious raping for him. And within two seasons he will end up where he belongs. So why punish a player for being good by letting him being owned the next season instead of giving him the chance to improve in the next stronger division where he has the chance to win a few games. If he is really good he will promote at the end of this season again.

I think it is just a much more positive experience to take the divisions step by step and advancing to the division you belong to, instead of winning one division and being hammered down until you can win again.

In the end no matter what kind of promotion/demotion system you use, players should more or less end up in the same spot. And if there is a player who is really too good to just advance one division, we admins have still the possibilty to move him manually.

Even when we have 25 divisions I am sure that playing 3 divisions higher or lower will make a huge difference.
2008-10-24, 20:00
Member
173 posts

Registered:
Jun 2008
Medar wrote:
Overall QWDL has been great. It has made QW's duel scene very active. Kudos!

Cool :-) - I'm really glad that people are enjoying it - all of the admins have worked hard to get it off the ground.

Medar wrote:
Of course it really should be in CET, but you already knew that.

Yeah and no - this is entirely my fault - times have been a nightmare. I should have got localised times done first - but will get them done before the next season.

Medar wrote:
Too many divisions.

/ignore ;-)

Medar wrote:
Attitude of the admins sucks. It would give much better impressions if, instead of being very hostile, you could simply ignore comments that you think aren't constructive etc.

If this was me - and it prolly was - I apologise. At one point I got so pissed of with the whines and stupid comments that I started ignore the sensible stuff too - again, sorry.

JohnNy_cz wrote:
Suggestion: move the players for next season A LOT.

This will happen - both manually (admins using what little common sense we have) and naturally (10 players/div + promotion/delegation).

JohnNy_cz wrote:
Also consider a way to avoid "high ping" divisions, this season some divs had (by bad luck) high amount of .pt and .ru players, it'd be better to spread them among more divs to have high variety of opponents (ping-wise) in each div.

I think now that we have a better idea of player skill levels, we may be able to do something about this for season 2, however, going forward results will be the main/only factor.

JohnNy_cz wrote:
BTW this is my 666th post *evil*

Best watch out for fire, spiky tail, horns, etc.

nix wrote:
I dont see a necassity to move players more then one division to avoid playing the same people over and over again.

Totally agree - as people play more / less, drop out / join, I think the chances of anyone playing the same enemies time and time again are low. Even if they do, surely that means they have similar skill levels so that is a good thing IMHO.
2008-11-14, 19:27
Member
173 posts

Registered:
Jun 2008
Season is ending soon so - *bump*
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