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QuakeWorld Duel League
2008-08-07, 20:32
Member
133 posts

Registered:
Sep 2007
Soo... I've been thinking a little about the possibility of a new kind of duel tournament and I think it's a pretty cool idea. It's just that I can't do it alone... at all

The idea is pretty simple. It's like NQR, but no teams this time.. no just players/duellers. 10 players per division(or more or less) and probably/hopefully quite a bit more divisions then 5.
Imo qw can use this tournament pretty well as it will allow a constant level of competitive tournament like duels weekly and not like the usual knockout tournaments where you can get knocked out after 2 matches and then it's over.

Discussion point will be the mappool ofcourse, but imo it should be TB5, yes 5... c'mon ztn and aero are very populair among the newer players and we want/need them don't we? Personally I don't give a rats ass what map I play... ok ok dm4 maybe, but mapwhine sucks

If I had any skills at creating websites at all I would've started right away, but I have no idea how too.

First it would be nice if people liked this idea and would sign up.
Then all I need is someone to make a webby for it. Use the nqr or eql webby for it? Don't know how it works, but I think you know what I mean.

Well that's all

edit: If you are interested in helping me out in whatever way please contact me on irc. You can find in qwrookie/quakeworld/ibh and comfortably.numb.
I most of all need a webdesigner. I don't really care about really nice webdesigns, but I love to have a good working webby

I think that it would be ideal, if there will be a league, that it starts early/mid september.
2008-08-07, 20:50
Member
18 posts

Registered:
Aug 2008
I actually think it's a great idea.

Duel tournaments are usually quite boring till we get to the final stages.
Also, like kwibus mentioned, many players get totally frustrated for being able to play only 2-3 games, and then it's:
"Bye bye, no more official game experience for you !".
This is the main reason i've never signed up for such a tournament myself...

I think we'll be getting a much bigger quantity of hot div0 duels as well.
As someone who likes watching duels alot, I'll be willing to help making this happen.
2008-08-07, 21:30
Member
174 posts

Registered:
Nov 2006
I think there has been like ~2-3 different concepts of how to run a duel tourney like that ready for use for quite a while. The only thing why it hasn't started I guess is that 50% of them were supposed to start at the same time, one league left space for the other to run it and they didn't run it. So this is just about waiting for it to happend and there are lots of players that will: "launch their 1on1 league with divs in september" -> might become once again "3 leagues starting" -> "0 actually starts".
2008-08-07, 21:32
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126 posts

Registered:
Jun 2007
There should be some more kenya maps in there (read: doomed)
2008-08-07, 21:34
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174 posts

Registered:
Nov 2006
Lundm1 much better than doomed imo :/ (if it's gonna work it better be tb5 atleast the first season)
2008-08-07, 21:37
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18 posts

Registered:
Aug 2008
1tsinen wrote:
there are lots of players that will: "launch their 1on1 league with divs in september"

Mind being more specific ? Who are these "lots of players"?
So i can ask them about it.....
2008-08-08, 01:02
Member
226 posts

Registered:
Jun 2006
How do you determine which player goes in which div? No proving ground?

Something I'm working on at the moment for North America is a ladder with the finals tournament being the top 16 of the ladder. Only problem with ladders is you have people dodging other people to keep their rank...

But with certain rules you could sort of take care of that problem. I just don't think it would be fair to label one person as one div without them playing in some sort of league to prove it.
--irc.quakenet.org #telefrag.me and #QWL | foogsQuakeWorld Ladder
2008-08-08, 07:59
Administrator
2045 posts

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Jan 2006
Why not do a tournament using group stages + playoffs instead. :|
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2008-08-08, 08:04
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1021 posts

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Apr 2006
fenris wrote:
How do you determine which player goes in which div? No proving ground?

Something I'm working on at the moment for North America is a ladder with the finals tournament being the top 16 of the ladder. Only problem with ladders is you have people dodging other people to keep their rank...

But with certain rules you could sort of take care of that problem. I just don't think it would be fair to label one person as one div without them playing in some sort of league to prove it.

Well you can't determine ppls 1on1 skill from what div the person plays in a 4on4 leauge either.

Take this as example: I play a lot of 4on4, but almost never play 1on1 dmm3, so I'm kind of a rookie at 1on1. Atm playing in Div3 in EQL7, and I have beaten people who plays in div2 (4on4), and got beaten by lower division players. The Div2 player will probably get raped in div2 if it were a 1on1 tourney, and the lower division player would probably rape his div4-opponents from the 1on1-league.

I think you could create a "pre-season" pretty easy by putting known players in a division where one are almost 100% certain they belong in, and then play some fast duels facing maybe 4 known players (2maps * 5mins for each opponent or something) and atleast get a pretty good picture of where to place people.

Dunno, just suggestions and input...
2008-08-08, 08:16
Member
569 posts

Registered:
Feb 2006
I think php-tourney with low-skill medium and high-skill bracket is enough. The reason i don't like leagues for duels is that a lot of people go inactive for whatever reasons. Somehow it's easier to enforce deadlines if it means you are out of the tournament unless you play your games.
2008-08-08, 08:38
Member
133 posts

Registered:
Sep 2007
Ofcourse it's not easy to judge the quality of every player to see in what division he should be in, but it's the same with 4on4 leagues. There will be a few players ending up in the wrond division who will either dominate their league or get raped in their league. All we can do to prevent that is to do our research on the players skills as much as possible.

Inactivity won't be a real big problem I think. Since you get 10-12 weeks to play your games it won't be a problem if you leave for a holiday for 4 weeks. You can play your games before or after the holiday. Semi-active people that have problems with the weekly deadline of the knockout stages will have more space to plan their matches. And what if they didn't play all their games, or if one player goes inactive?
This happens all the time in our 4on4 leagues, ofcourse it's a shame, but it's not a real problem.

Adding more kenya will only scare quite a few players away im afraid. Their are some really cool maps out there, but it takes quite a few games on map to see some real quality on it. Some people will never learn new maps again. I actually think that a player like griffen won't participate only because ztn and aero. A shame, but adding more unknown maps will result in more good players dropping out and we also want to see them play don't we?

I've been playing since last november again and I haven't seen a single duel tourney until phils ztn tourney and I can't remember any duel tournament based on divisions at all. Also I think it can run at the same time of an 4on4 league. Actually I think it will only increase overall qw activity. People that don't have a team now still have something to play for.
If there are more people wanting to create a duel tourney please let me know. I'd rather bundle our ideas and minds to make this happen then to see multiple duel tourneys during fall which will kill eachother.

ps anyone knows how I can add a poll to this thread?
2008-08-08, 09:10
Member
173 posts

Registered:
Jun 2008
I love the idea - have often wondered why it doesn't exist already ;-)

IMHO, 8 divs with 8 players in each would prolly not be full but would be a good starting point.

Maps should be tb5 - everyone knows them and some players just will not play on others. Noobs like me will just have to learn/put up with dmx. (personally I think that dmx should not even exist - too slow and campy - they should be replaced with skull :-))

There is no valid way that I can think of to determine initial divs other than to trust players. We could knock something up so that after all/most players have signed up, they just compare themselves to the other players with 4 options (better, worse, even, unknown). I could say I am better than someone that has just started playing and worse than Kwibus (although I will beat you today!) This would give us a starting point which could be confirmed by admins using their common sense. The player's choices should be hidden from others in order to reduce the amount of bitching ;-)

The tourney should be a fast, rolling thing. Something like 2 months (or maybe just 1 month) for all matches (if there are only 8 players per div, this should be easy to schedule). If someone goes on holiday then they don't get any points and it is their tough luck ;-). If we can get a lot of seasons per year then it would just be better - players would be able to go up (and down) divs quickly to find their natural position and new players would not have to wait years to jump up a few divs. Playoffs suck in any sport IMO - the top 2 should go up a div the bottom 2 should go down a div. Players should inform the website when and where they are playing so that spectators can watch what they want.

If one of the existing sites can be adjusted then great, if not, if someone will do the graphics, I will do the code.
2008-08-08, 09:38
Member
174 posts

Registered:
Nov 2006
Do a couple of .qws/.spams and I bet you'll find some more people to help you out. I can help out with getting the "system" rolling since I've been planning/thinking/talking of how this works for almost a year so I should have some ideas for you how to do this. I am not gonna give out names of who I've talked to since I have no clue if they still are intrested so they might just aswell tell you about it straight away
2008-08-08, 09:54
Member
1433 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
Nice thing is that for start you can put players into whatever division, they will simply advance to the upper one for the next season - no cheap excuses "oh we have a completely different lineup now!" as duel skill simply does not change

There are several ways to solve inactivity: 1) yellow, red cards for "amount of matches deadlines" 2) pre-set match schedules with option for players to set different schedule;

TBH I don't like "let the players set the schedule" as I'm tired of constantly finding oponents and discussing their free time. In FDE it's ok as usually you don't play that many matches, but if you have to do this with 10 or more opponents - *yawn*. Who doesn't have time to play QW each sunday or thursday evening should not be allowed to participate in official tournament.
2008-08-08, 11:49
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253 posts

Registered:
Nov 2007
Grump wrote:
If we can get a lot of seasons per year then it would just be better - players would be able to go up (and down) divs quickly to find their natural position and new players would not have to wait years to jump up a few divs. Playoffs suck in any sport IMO - the top 2 should go up a div the bottom 2 should go down a div.

This perfectly check up with my idea. I think this would be the most motivating and "activating" system
lots of divs where players will wandering between the divs depends on their actual skills. short tourneys would be great but as a tourney ends right after would start the next that would be nice
cheat 2 win!
2008-08-08, 14:15
Member
133 posts

Registered:
Sep 2007
Well I like Grumps idea too. 1 month is too short, for a scene with lots of people that have a job/wife/gf/kids and lots of other stuff to do besides qw. 6 weeks is allready better.
Imo we shouldn't force too much, like a schedule as Johny suggested. NQR uses a schedule, but who follows it actually? Normally you just try to fix a date/time with an opponent in your league and play.

Well everyone that is interested in helping please contact me on irc. I'm in qwrookie, quakeworld, ibh and comfortably.numb.
I'll put this in my first post too. Like i've said before, the most important thing I need is a webdesigner and access to the that website . All other help is much much appreciated!
2008-08-08, 14:29
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253 posts

Registered:
Nov 2007
What if admins give 6 weeks to everybody to play their matches in the division without schedule.
after the 6 weeks 2 guys with the highest score in the div with climb up one div and the two lowest score will fall down one div. then starts the next round
for div0 i would make a very little div. about for 4 people.
so the best could tell that they could play in 0 div (for example) 4 tourneys in a row
cheat 2 win!
2008-08-08, 16:12
Administrator
2045 posts

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Jan 2006
Kwibus wrote:
Well I like Grumps idea too. 1 month is too short, for a scene with lots of people that have a job/wife/gf/kids and lots of other stuff to do besides qw. 6 weeks is allready better.
Imo we shouldn't force too much, like a schedule as Johny suggested. NQR uses a schedule, but who follows it actually? Normally you just try to fix a date/time with an opponent in your league and play.

Well everyone that is interested in helping please contact me on irc. I'm in qwrookie, quakeworld, ibh and comfortably.numb.
I'll put this in my first post too. Like i've said before, the most important thing I need is a webdesigner and access to the that website . All other help is much much appreciated!

The thing is that a schedule might work better in a 1on1 tournament as it's only 1/4 as many players that need to be able to make it on a specific time in 1on1 compared to 4on4.
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2008-08-08, 16:16
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Jan 2006
Jon Snow wrote:
What if admins give 6 weeks to everybody to play their matches in the division without schedule.
after the 6 weeks 2 guys with the highest score in the div with climb up one div and the two lowest score will fall down one div. then starts the next round

What will you do with new players and players who drop out? Manually drop them somewhere where they "fit"? Running any kind of tournament is always easy on papers - it's all the exceptions that f*cks things up.

Jon Snow wrote:
for div0 i would make a very little div. about for 4 people.
so the best could tell that they could play in 0 div (for example) 4 tourneys in a row

??? :|
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2008-08-08, 16:19
Member
1433 posts

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Jan 2006
What you guys are describing is (with minor differences) a ladder. Ladder format has already been tried and it failed.
2008-08-08, 16:36
Member
184 posts

Registered:
May 2007
I think to determine who is in which division will not be very difficult. Everybody has his regular practice partners. I am sure most of us can name some players who are equal , bit better, bit worse, no challenge at all, a rapist. So everybody who signs up should at least name 3 players who are around his skill level. I'll take myself for example: I play against hejsan on a regular basis and we are pretty even on most maps, I lose against vrtx on regular basis, he doesnt destroy me, but I dont have a chance to win against him, and so on.

So you read this in my application and cross check it with another application from another player who states: I win against vrtx without problems.

This means, depending on the other applications, that it is pretty sure that hejsan and me end up in the same div, maybe together with vrtx but definitly not with the guy stating vrtx is no problem for him.


This will not solve all problems, but I think this method will provide some basic data on who is roughly on the same level.
2008-08-08, 18:15
Member
173 posts

Registered:
Jun 2008
JohnNy_cz wrote:
What you guys are describing is (with minor differences) a ladder. Ladder format has already been tried and it failed.

Nope, the UK football leagues are not a ladder. A ladder does not require that everybody plays each other, a round robin tournament on the other hand requires that everybody plays everybody else in their div (or get 0 points for the matches that they miss).

Be positive! ;-)

I have started on a website - hopefully get it done over the weekend.
2008-08-08, 22:24
Member
226 posts

Registered:
Jun 2006
Maybe we can talk the KTX developers into adding a feature where you can start a league game from within the server. That would be pretty rad. Type 1on1league then it starts the league match and the demo and the stats are then uploaded from the server to the website.
--irc.quakenet.org #telefrag.me and #QWL | foogsQuakeWorld Ladder
2008-08-23, 18:30
Member
133 posts

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Sep 2007
Well the league will happen so I'm still looking for some more people to help admin and do some previews on the league etc.
So if anyone wants to help come and check #qwdl! Thank you!

The site url will be announced pretty soon
2008-08-24, 19:22
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569 posts

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Feb 2006
fenris wrote:
Maybe we can talk the KTX developers into adding a feature where you can start a league game from within the server. That would be pretty rad. Type 1on1league then it starts the league match and the demo and the stats are then uploaded from the server to the website.

Sounds great, but you realise this would be several 100 hours of implementation and verification before it would work good enough not to be considerd a beta-test.

I really would like to see something similar to battle.net's automatic matchmaking, ladders and tournaments in qw. (I think that is what quakelive is for q3). However i would rate this harder and more complex to create than qw graphics engine...
2008-08-26, 00:58
Member
123 posts

Registered:
Mar 2006
Season #2 of ZDDL is finishing. If it can work for ZDaemon it can work for QW!

http://www.cdevastation.com/zddl/index.php
2008-09-25, 14:39
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1 post

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Sep 2008
who play with me ?
2008-09-26, 11:32
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312 posts

Registered:
Feb 2006
yes someone invent a duel tournament with divisions
  28 posts on 1 page  1