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2006-08-20, 16:01
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Hi, i just thought i'd see what all of you think of a tournament that requires an entrance fee to participate. Such a 1on1 tournament would be nice in europe, it has been done in USA so why not here? (although it wasn't any entrance fee in the US tournaments, but a prizepot anyway). You may ask why the hell you would want to throw your precious money at something useless as Quakeworld when you don't have any chance at the no.1 spot anyway but think about it. It's probably the game you've played almost daily since -96 and something like £10 or even £5 for _one_ tournament would be worth your money to get some action in QW again. Just skip those expensive fucking drinks when you're clubbing next time and you're there.

All tournaments should of course not be like this, but why not try it once and see what it's like?
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2006-08-20, 16:03
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could always have the entrance fee scaled dependant on div/skill

e.g., griffin pays £1000 entrance fee whereas gaz only pay £0.01
2006-08-20, 16:07
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Good idea Ake! I'm in!
2006-08-20, 16:16
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Dunno about scaled entrance fees. Would probably produce the usual whine and we have the "div" problem again.
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2006-08-20, 17:49
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oldman wrote:
could always have the entrance fee scaled dependant on div/skill

e.g., griffin pays £1000 entrance fee whereas gaz only pay £0.01

Completely uncalled for
2006-08-20, 19:22
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Sonds like a plan. Clanbase based perhaps?

You know that your heart/photo is 300% gay right ?
2006-08-20, 19:29
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Don't know what Clanbase view on such an idea is really but it would be smooth if they were ok with it. Could use their backoffice and publicity etc.

My picture is pure love!
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2006-08-20, 23:07
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Perhaps entrance fee+donation so that those who feel rich can throw in a few extra bucks
2006-08-22, 04:41
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It won't work due to ping issues... Money can't guarantee equal pings for everyone and playing ping 65 vs 39 will lead to the question 'why not play ping 90 vs 90' if that's the only 'fair' solution in such situation. If money are involved everyone will want to have 'fair' fight . Just remember what happened in last duelmania during Ave vs Para duel, etc. Now multiply this whine 10x :<.
2006-08-22, 06:43
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Good point plast. Let's just take the money and give it to the high qw council to buy some julmust and ostbågar (or maybe something useful for the qw community).

To rid the whine maybe some of it could be used for price money at LAN (qh?).
2006-08-22, 09:44
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could always disable ping reporting in game (i.e., remove it from the scoreboard) so nobody knows what their ping is
2006-08-22, 11:53
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I like the idea, I'm up for a try.
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2006-08-22, 15:03
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Quote:
It won't work due to ping issues... Money can't guarantee equal pings for everyone and playing ping 65 vs 39 will lead to the question 'why not play ping 90 vs 90' if that's the only 'fair' solution in such situation. If money are involved everyone will want to have 'fair' fight wink. Just remember what happened in last duelmania during Ave vs Para duel, etc. Now multiply this whine 10x :<.

As far as i know this is the only reason i've heard for not having money tournaments in Quakeworld. And if this is the worst thing people can come up with for not having a prize purse in _ONE_ 1on1 tournament then WHAT THE FUCK?

But sure, to get a tournament like this as non-whine-friendly as possible a really thorough ruleset is required. The best thing would of course be to have it under LAN conditions, but there's only one LAN in Quakeworld and it's not close to as many people as i would like attending.
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2006-08-24, 02:39
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AKe, I had the same idea awhile back, probably 4 months ago or so.. I emailed CHTV with the idea, and i talked to def about it a little bit..

It seems the biggest problem, and main concern of everyone is "ping" personally i don't mind it.. I would pay to get into the tourney and play griffin with my 90ms uk ping.. that really dosent distract me from playing..

Who couldent spare $10 or $20 bucks, to get a serious tournament going, that people won't drop out of??? i would gladly pay $20 bucks just to play in something like that.. It would benifit the community greatly..

You would have alot of activity, demos, old players coming out, new players coming in, the gaming industry would probably take notice also with a large number of active participants..

Overall, it's a great idea.. It's not always about winning, ive learned that over my many years of quake.. So everyone set ping's aside.. and play for the game that you came to love, the fun of the game you love and the future of quakeworld!
2006-08-24, 02:44
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oK, so im back for some more random suggestions:::

If ping is an issue... Im just throwing this out there as an IDEA:::: please feel free to flame me =)..

top seeded player A: picks map aerowalk and A server. Player B pics: dm4 on their server.. third map if needed goes to a coin toss by an admin?.. sounds reasonible to me..

If players agree to minping: ALLOW it.. if not, see above OR....

both decide on a server with the least ping difference..

There are many ways we can get around this, everyone just needs to bend a little.
2006-08-24, 04:18
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Immy wrote:
top seeded player A: picks map aerowalk and A server. Player B pics: dm4 on their server.. third map if needed goes to a coin toss by an admin?.. sounds reasonible to me..

not really

A is swe and picks swe server
B is pol and picks kurwa server

A: it's 13 vs 90+ ms in swe
B: it's 13-26 vs 39-51 ms in pol

apart from that difference it's gonna be 1:1 in most cases (lower ping and 'best' map will make it) and the decider on random server means the game result will be random

Immy wrote:
both decide on a server with the least ping difference..

this means whine and more whine

Immy wrote:
There are many ways we can get around this, everyone just needs to bend a little.

only STRICT minping rule can do it but then it is the problem 'what's the best minping value' and 'what server can we take as reference point'

up to 50 ms and wargamez seems ok for most of europe i guess
60-70 ms if you want to add uk/portugal and some parts of russia


btw. if you really want to do it you should think of rewarding like 1/2 of players, i mean if there is 128 players let half of them (or at least quarter) get the rewards, not only the top 3... lets say something like this:

we got 128 players so 128 $ (lets say entrance fee is 1 $)

64 players get nothing
32 players get what they paid (entrance fee) (that leaves us 96 $)
16 players get 2x entrance fee (that leaves us 64 $)
8 players get 3x entrance fee (that leaves us 40 $)
4 players get 4x entrance fee (that leaves us 24 $)
4th player gets 5x entrance fee (19 $ left)
3rd player gets 6x entrance fee (13 $ left)
2nd player gets 6x entrance fee (7$ left)
1st player gets 7x entrance fee (0$ left)

of course thats just an example
2006-08-24, 04:28
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i Like that idea, it would atleast give people a chance to win their money back... as long as you made top 64 lol.. I think 128 players would be a reasonable number to shoot for... if everyone was charged, $10usd to enter, which i would pay in a heartbeat.. 1st prize winner gets about $700 usd, which ISNT a ton of cash.. but its worth playing some 1on1's for haha..

I think a reasonable ping different would be between 30ms.. so, if somone pings 25ms at a server, and the other player pings 55ms.. id say thats playable.. No 55ms sure isnt lan ping, and it's surely not 25ms either..
HOWEVER its quite playable..

Minpin values are a big thing now, some say that incriments of 13ms work the best... but if it's set both players need to feel the effects of it... Meaning, you set minping higher then the highest pinging person in general..
Paradoks commented on what it was like to play with minping, i admit there is alot of lag.. it just dosent feel right.. so..

somone needs to make a poll, who will play with each scniero given above, or incorporate all of the above.. so, that less "needy" players can play without all the whine and such.. theres no reason to whine for christ sakes, i know i wouldent beat griffin 1on1 with even pings on dm4, so im not gonna complain about pings HEHE..

I guess it really matters only with the top tier players.. which is a handfull, and i think they have been around long enough to understand your not gonna win everytime.. everyone has their days.. soooo, more input, lets figure this out and make it work.
2006-08-24, 10:18
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Quote:
if everyone was charged, $10usd to enter, which i would pay in a heartbeat.. 1st prize winner gets about $700 usd, which ISNT a ton of cash.. but its worth playing some 1on1's for haha..

Something like that would be the best imo. People should afford to enter and the prize purse should be tempting enough to play for...

Even if this wouldn't be the most serious tournament in the world (noone will die if they won't come first) we need a really good set of rules and the very best of admins to be there when discussions like the ones about ping pops up in games etc.

Btw, is the easiest way to set up something like this through paypal or something?
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2006-08-24, 10:40
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The only way to make it 'fair' by pings is to do it like the US do it - make it exclusive to a particular country and then say that any players from other countries who want to participate should expect to play on foreign servers. Sadly there's not really a way to avoid ping arguments otherwise.
2006-08-24, 12:03
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Immy wrote:
if everyone was charged, $10usd to enter, which i would pay in a heartbeat.. 1st prize winner gets about $700 usd, which ISNT a ton of cash.. but its worth playing some 1on1's for haha..

am i really the only one to notice that 7x10 is not 700, but 70?
2006-08-24, 12:30
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Imo not only the first spot should receive a prize, but it got to be something big in the pot anyway.

128 players * $10 = $1280

1st: $640
2nd: $320
3rd: $160
4th: $80
5th-13th: $10

I guess these are minor things though. Getting someone to actually host this tournament is a bit harder.
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2006-08-24, 13:26
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yep and to find those 128 players
2006-08-24, 13:37
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Immy wrote:
I think a reasonable ping different would be between 30ms.. so, if somone pings 25ms at a server, and the other player pings 55ms.. id say thats playable.. No 55ms sure isnt lan ping, and it's surely not 25ms either.. HOWEVER its quite playable..

That's exactly the kind of thinking why this whole tournament idea simply can't work. No one will agre to play 26 vs 51 on server A if on server B it's 51 vs 26 just because server A is wargamez and B is kurwaserver for ex. No one will pay to play in tournament where he has to play with unfair pings.

The only way different from Gaz's proposal is to do it like this:
1. Both players tell some servers where they got low ping (at most 50 would be best).
2. They check those servers and pick the one where pings are most equal.
3. Higher pinging player can still use VERY STRICT minping rule allowing him to set ping up to exactly the same ping value as his. IF HE WANTS, that means no ping difference rule like "minping is allowed only if difference is bigger than 13 ms", cause it only lead to more whine where it comes to picking the server. Lower pinging player cannot disagree (w/o).
4. If 26 vs 51 is playable then 51 vs 51 is even more playable and _quite_ more fair. Forget about 'he's used to 51 and I'm not', that's bullshit.

Ake -> In Poland you can't take back the money from PayPal yet so it would be one way trip. But I wouldn't count on many players from Poland anyway, 10 $ is a lot of money ))).
2006-08-24, 22:53
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ok so i fudged up my math on that one a bit, it was late what do you want from me =)...

well, honestly ping should not be this great of an issue.. I bet a ton of people were happy with there 150 ms 56k modem speed back in the day, better then 250ms for sure..

If this tourney actually starts.. I will be playing from USA, and i dont have a problem playing with 90ms.. its playable and sure im not going to get 40+lg, but if i can lg 30percent vs griffin with 90ping then im quite happy..
50ms, regardless if the other player is 12ms, or 30 is playable..

CAWMON PLAST $10 bucks!!!, u probably spend that much on MCDONALDS and BOOZE, weed etc =)... small price to pay for a fun competative tourney with alot of good games.

Ake, id say paypal is the best bet.. and it would be reasonable to get 128 players involved.. It would take alot of solisiting "I CANT SPELL" and alot of avertisement, but it could be done.

You guys know very well how dead the US qw sceene is, we managed to get 32 signups in a few days, and had more players that wanted in but we set it to 32 max players... We could pull 50 from USA alone, i bet...

the more people that enter, the more attractive that first prize $ will look.. we do need good admins, and somone to host the tourney.. I PERSONALLY am not capable of doing it myself, and i know this.. or i would do it..

Fenris is doing a nice job with the one in USA right now, i would say hes a good canidate for it.. hes hard working, and knows how to do it the right way.. along with some good help, it could be done..

Well, im done for now, u guys have a good night =)
2006-08-25, 00:22
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immy: I don't know if you've followed the euro scene the last year, especially in the 4on4 area. Anyway, the ping whine there is kinda severe at times because people wants to win. I think that it should be easier to get two people to get fair pings than like...8. :}

Plast: I don't know how much $10 is worth in poland but in sweden it's like two beers when you go to the night club. Two beers that you most of the time regret that you even had the day after. Also, we had like 256 players last duelmania. I really think we could get at least half of that for a serious tournament with a prize purse.
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2006-08-25, 00:36
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Ake, I played for defs last season, so im pretty aware of the ping whine issue, although i had 90-120ms most of the time =).... but i do know what happened with para/avenger issue..

dont drink thoes 2 beers, and join the tourney!! =)...
2006-08-25, 04:24
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10 $ is hmm ~15 beers in Polish shop, 3-5 in "good" night club

I'm not saying it's much because it's simply not BUT for the common Polish player, young man, student perhaps, it's important position in budget But I agree the entrace fee can't be lower otherwise it would be joke
2006-08-25, 05:02
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hehe, i guess its different in poland, in american were all lazy punks and we put booze before anything LOL..

seriously, if its.. books for school or beer, you know what comes first in USA, hence the reason were all retarded and spelling impaired like myself, and my match above =)... 7x intrance fee of $10 = 700 LOLABLE
2006-08-25, 13:01
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10$ is the price of one drink in a "good" club in Ireland. Cheap skates
2006-08-25, 15:26
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omg what happened to irish economy, 10$ a drink is just wrong. in germany you get hook-- err nevermind

some good suggestions regarding the ping issue here, you just need to agree on one modus then *write down* the rules and guidelines for everyone to see imo.
also, what about sponsoring? a 128 player tourney surely should be interesting enough for a sponsor, especially if you have a topnotch tourney website to have the sponsors logo displayed?
and finally maybe some rich qw'ers are generous enough to donate some extra euros in exchange for new griffin vs reppie demos on chtv.
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