User panel stuff on forum
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General Discussion
2006-07-14, 22:58
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54 posts

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Jul 2006
Story:
We need more active players in the qw-community. As the 10year anniveristy has gone by I was thinking it needs a reincarnation.
So we started chatting on irc about what is needed to get new players in the game we came up with a few suggestions.

And I also want to say that fix has a point about CB.
So my suggestion is a reintroduction to QW and making a sign-up on the duelmania page. If enough sign then we go over to CB and make the tournament happend there.
The thing is with the CB suggestion. Is that we need some experienced and hard working admins for it to work and if needed I will help out in anyway that I can ( I was an admin in duelmania a year ago ).


Quakeworld reintroduction plan:


Reintroducion of quakeworld ( Quakeworld II maybe )
More advanced clients with auto-update and auto-download for missing files etc
Change the default texture to better quality ones ( since the default is shit )
More details in the options ( more commands in an advanced menu )
Easier change of texture
More maps need to be introduced ( I know we have tried but we play the same maps as we did 10 years ago )
Some introduction for new players
More help if the game doesnt want to start or connect to a server
A browser with support for downloading/installing mods ( ctf, tf , ra )
A mod/program for Multispeccing a live game with coverage
A newbie tournament.
More FFA servers.
An server auto-update browser ( kinda like ASE)
The main part for all this is that new players watch the gfx first and the feeling second, so you have to make
a good first impression or else you lose 50% of the new people that brings us to a Cool intro.


We could use alot more suggestions.
But mostly for a project like this
We need:

Programers
Designers
Testpanel
Mapdesigners ( again )
Someone to program a auto-download/update system.
And ofcourse someone to cordinate everything
Since I know nothing about any of this, I cant do anything alone.
But I would like support and help as much as I can get
2006-07-14, 23:32
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Jan 2006
Cool, looking forward for this
2006-07-14, 23:38
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Jun 2006
lets not forget advertising for qw movies and download of quake on major major sites - it needs to be done somehow or forget it
2006-07-14, 23:54
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226 posts

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Jun 2006
I'm seriously wanting to open up a duel ladder to promote quakeworld dueling. I've never asked the people of NQR if they would be interested in opening one up, if they aren't then I am going to have to code one myself. I want to have it is mandatory to upload your demo to the site, you report your game on the site, and have some sort of ladder channel. I have quite a few ideas for the ladder, e.g. on certain weeks you will get bonus ladder points if you play on the map of the week. This would be a great way to introduce new maps, and make people practice them. I want something similar to wgtour.com ranking wise. With the A,B,C ranks. Tons of ideas though, no coding skills to go along with it.

I know there is duelmania, but is that active throughout the entire year? Nah.

What also would be cool on the ladder (probably not possible) is to have certain servers that you could start your match typing a command, then after the match is over it would auto report the scores and upload the demo for you to the site. Quakeworld Americas doesn't have enough players and this might interest more (this would be a world ladder anyway), by starting a duel ladder it would let newer players see:

1) that the community is active, so it is worth playing
2) there are newbie players in the lower ladder to beat up on since they suck
3) get to know the big names in qw and be able to download their latest demos
4) there are more things they would see but i don't feel like listing anymore

As for beginning to get into quakeworld, we could give them def's quakeworld setup. It is a "pro's" configuration so they will know they have just as an equal advantage as the pro guy. After they get more experienced they will most likely venture towards modifying and learning about the finer points of the game. Although I haven't ventured far from def's config yet.

Problems with starting something like this:

need coders
need dedicated admins
need promotion
need activity (players) and willingness to play from current qwers (maybe we could bribe them with a cash prize for the ladder finals at the end of the season)

This is all an idea so far, hopefully I can get something brewing

Anyway, I know css / xhtml and photoshop so if you need a designer I would be glad to help out.

Long live QW!
--irc.quakenet.org #telefrag.me and #QWL | foogsQuakeWorld Ladder
2006-07-15, 01:42
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800 posts

Registered:
Jan 1970
If someone made QW 2.0 you'd need good single player too. That'd draw lots of downloads from people who might ignore it otherwise. I would suggest doom style single player as quake single player sorta sucks. It'd be cool to see QW 2.0 have built in auto-skill match making or something so you just would enter mode, perhaps map too and it'd find you a game. Obviously would only work when lots of players are playing. BTW, I always wanted to see an EU 1v1/2v2/FFA league with skill divisions like NQR or EQL.
2006-07-15, 02:27
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Jan 2006
I'd be happy to help in the way of answering questions
I don't think we need new maps, dm4 dm6 and aerowalk are really good on learning quakeworld
textures are available at the quake retexturing-projects site...
newbie tournaments I can't say will be too popular, it is way to hard to get people playing when they don't care that much
the problem is that darn f_modified.. if we could get ruohis and plagues models approved and whatnot..
I'd also like to remove ruleset smackdown in the new quakeworld, it is so lame...
2006-07-15, 09:26
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800 posts

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Jan 1970
My suggestion is to change the way matches are set up for next nqr / eql / whatever. Instead of throwing each team into a division and then breaking up each division into 3 or 4 equally strong sections, and then giving each team a list of the 7 other clans they're going to play, do this:

Group teams into divisions (same as before), don't group teams into sections, and then after the first matches set up which team plays which team based on their records.. so that there's a sorting method for equal strength teams to play each other. This system is more or less called "swiss brackets", it's what Wansanity (a cpm tdm tournament in na www.wansanity.com) used, and the cs/cod league CAL (www.caleague.com) uses a modified form of this. It's successful, it works really well. Basically it goes through a group stage and then playoffs, it just changes how group games are arranged. Works for duel too.

So yeah, qw should try using a system like this cause all the leagues I've seen do it have been very successful.
2006-07-15, 10:40
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Jan 1970
Peppe wrote:
I'd be happy to help in the way of answering questions
I don't think we need new maps, dm4 dm6 and aerowalk are really good on learning quakeworld
textures are available at the quake retexturing-projects site...
newbie tournaments I can't say will be too popular, it is way to hard to get people playing when they don't care that much
the problem is that darn f_modified.. if we could get ruohis and plagues models approved and whatnot..
I'd also like to remove ruleset smackdown in the new quakeworld, it is so lame...

I dont agree with you at all. And we cant have that attitude. ooo its no use getting a noob tourney blah blah.
I think we need some fresh thinking and not give up cuz its been tried before.
I believe quake/qw is the greatest game ever made and that still quite alot of ppl play it after ten years prove it.
I have faith in the game its just need some refreshment and new ideas to lure some fresh ppl into the scene.

/ITS_FOR_REAL
2006-07-15, 11:13
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Jan 2006
Adde wrote:
Reintroducion of quakeworld ( Quakeworld II maybe )

Hm, this would be aimed at those who never tried QW with the new clients i guess? Nothing new would be developed or what is "QW2" supposed to contain that QW doesn't already have?

Adde wrote:
More help if the game doesnt want to start or connect to a server

That's what #qwhelp on IRC is for. Don't know if you think QW is lacking documentation or something. I think ezQuake has a quite nice documentation. Not sure if they got a really nice list of FAQ's though if the game won't start.

Adde wrote:
A mod/program for Multispeccing a live game with coverage

That's what QTV will do? When the most popular servers can run QTV we'll all be sooo happy. <3

Adde wrote:
A newbie tournament.

This has already been discussed for EQL4: http://qw.fragzone.com/eql/comment.php?id=28
However, as it's not always easy to get a whole new team together it might be a good idea to do more 1on1 tournaments for new players.

Adde wrote:
More FFA servers.

Most of the ones we have are empty anyway? Why wouldn't the new ones be?

Peppe wrote:
the problem is that darn f_modified.. if we could get ruohis and plagues models approved and whatnot..
I'd also like to remove ruleset smackdown in the new quakeworld, it is so lame...

You want total anarchy on the client side of things in tournaments etc? I hope not. I agree that the smackdown ruleset might need to be overlooked and improved though.
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2006-07-15, 11:44
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Jan 1970
Why not put together an updated equake package and promote it as "quakeworld 2.0" or "quakeworld 10 year anniversary edition"?
2006-07-15, 11:57
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Jan 2006
sprub: you know fquake?

To the topic: Interesting thoughts. But remember one important thing: You would need to re-create all the original Quake models, sounds and everything else if you really want an easy package. Quake is no abandonware. And you may not program around the Shareware. Players will always need the pak1.pak.

Quote:
Change the default texture to better quality ones ( since the default is shit )

The default is the right one. You could try to get mappers to use 24bit textures for new maps though, just like Zakaa did.
2006-07-15, 12:10
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Jan 2006
Spirit wrote:
sprub: you know fquake?

To the topic: Interesting thoughts. But remember one important thing: You would need to re-create all the original Quake models, sounds and everything else if you really want an easy package. Quake is no abandonware. And you may not program around the Shareware. Players will always need the pak1.pak.

Quote:
Change the default texture to better quality ones ( since the default is shit )

The default is the right one. You could try to get mappers to use 24bit textures for new maps though, just like Zakaa did.

I think that the standard textures in a package such as fQuake should be the 24-bit ones as most (new) players will want to turn them on anyway to at least try them. Many players goes like "This isn't what i saw on the fancy screenshots" when they first start the game. So, a high quality setup as standard in fQuake packages would be for the best imo. If that's legal?
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2006-07-15, 13:14
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Feb 2006
i'd like to know where the team of coders are gonna spring up from who are gonna do all this
2006-07-15, 13:50
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Jan 2006
what? the aussies manage to play tournaments without it! no fucking cheat-bustin there ://
not total anarchy, ofcourse only allowed clients(which I didn't even mention)
ITS4REAL: I've tried noob-tourneys on lans and the dedication is way too low
I'm not saying stop newbies to quakeworld, I'm just saying: good luck making 'em stay
2006-07-15, 14:47
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Jul 2006
I dont know all the technical details or what is possible, I just want to get some life into qw

The programers will have to step up and say that they are ready..
For example just redo the menu is small project ( i think )

And what I meant with the textures is something that was mentioned. Make 24 textures default when installing pakages
that way u dont have to go through the pak1.pak file.

All I want to know is if it is possible to do any of the things I wrote.

After all it is one small step at a time
2006-07-15, 15:03
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Feb 2006
who wants n00bs in QW when they are enough already (meself included)?
most QW players are n00bs in comparision with reppie, def, griffin, para..

i say: let's all start playing like those guys first and then get other n00bs to replace us
god damn hippies >_<
2006-07-15, 15:13
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Jan 2006
More n00bs = more players = more publicity, knowledge, opponents, rising stars, dedicated players, tournaments, whatever
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2006-07-15, 17:07
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Jun 2006
ofcourse you want newbs, how else will it grow? lol
2006-07-15, 19:16
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Feb 2006
i was j/k

the best way to draw more people in is to make movies like Mortuality

random guy on esreality.com wrote:
since when UT2004 has quake weapons and gameplay physics?

may pez lead our crusade! DDE3 ftw!
god damn hippies >_<
2006-07-16, 10:25
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Jan 2006
Some brainstorm: There's a need to create the mainstream with quality and quantity. And oldschool players will hate you for creating a mainstream. They will kill you (and your site) for creating something that tries ot be a mainstream but is missing quality and quantity. (That's why I didn't like all qw.nu sites)
We need a website where a newbie can register and each time he (logins and) visits the site there will be some flashing text like "you've got a new message", "new tournament registrations are open for you", "browse other users configuration files", "games played since the last time you entered", ... All the "interactivity" we can offer now is this pathetic forum (no offense) and all the nice content and news spread across ten different sites.
Ask some QW players that are also playing some other mainstream game (CoD2? I don't know). Which sites they do visit? Register there, check what the site offers, steal the ideas!
A lot of things mentioned above can be done with the fQuake pack. The "add pak1.pak to get it working" is a nice compromise between legality and "easy to run". Also the magic link trick could be used perhaps

From the client side point of view now.
It's hard to get some feedback from newbies. On IRC they are really scared to ask. I'm starting to set rather low priorities for all the bug reports and feature request done by oldschool players. Sometimes they request interesting things but usually they don't realise how unimportant their request is compared to what QW needs nowadays and they bring our (ezQuake team) attention away from what really needs to be done (IRC is evil in this). I also think the auto-update is such kind of (bad) suggestion.
We've got an up-to date FAQ and I've also updated those "missing gfx.wad" and "can't set fullscreen mode" error messages to something more understandable even to newcomers. Recently Cokeman has added important features that help understanding 4on4 gameplay. Also we've modernized the client menu but I think like 10 times more updates need to be done to in-game menus. Also the full QuakeTV support in the client would be one of the greatest features in QW history IMHO.
I can always make a fresh install of fQuake & ezQuake, sit on the chair and act like "ok, now what I need to do to have a comfortable gameplay". But a feedback of a newbie that just downloaded ezQuake and is connecting to his first game is like zillion times more worthy. (example: I realised that to get some output from server browser, you have to mark some source on it's second tab. That's not quite intuitive. So I've hardcoded two major sources as default in ezQuake and other two "auto" speed up things. Realised that after playing Warsow. Stealing ideas, everything has already been done at least once...)
2006-07-16, 13:48
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JohnNy_cz wrote:
[...] We need a website where a newbie can register and each time he (logins and) visits the site there will be some flashing text like "you've got a new message", "new tournament registrations are open for you", "browse other users configuration files", "games played since the last time you entered", ... All the "interactivity" we can offer now is this pathetic forum (no offense) and all the nice content and news spread across ten different sites. [...]

Even if you may not believe me, this one is coming. We just have to wait until august or something when QW gets full of life again. Take my word for it, there is something coming and hopefully people will really like it.
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2006-07-17, 13:09
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About empty FFA servers: This is not just QWs problem, but in the logic of public servers: they are empty at first/sometimes and most players won't connect to empty server for obvious reasons. it's a phenomen called "the critical mass". Solution is very simple: bots and/or public will to stay on the servers even if you would be the only one, but I just can't see this happen (even though I personally idle on FFA servers if i'm alone).

About ezQuake: Menus could be improved. I can't remember if the latest version includes the mouse option if not it should, more options (btw. excellent work with teamsays!) *edit. I checked that serverbrowser thing out and.. is it just me or is that thing kind of... stupid/complicated/whatnot..

and how about demo at the startup? They have such on every modern videogame...(of course it could be turned off without tweaking). *.edit. the console screen to which ezquake spawns to is not atractive, I bet it's effective but there should be some fancy menu startup also (which could be turned off)
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2006-07-17, 14:40
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May 2006
a nice player.md3 is what's needed :> what happened with moo's model? or ruhois project (he mentioned he would get onto it after he's finished all the v_ g_ and bmodels) ?

I think its really gotta go POW! and BLAM! n stuff if its going to attract new players.. it needs strong art direction :>
2006-07-17, 19:36
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haha
yes more POW and BLAM-stuff
2006-07-18, 10:38
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Jan 2006
Adde i wanna be a part of the Testpanel. I like the idias, QW2.0 is something i thought of 5 years agoo, make it happend!
2006-07-19, 17:54
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14 posts

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Apr 2006
pek wrote:
About empty FFA servers: This is not just QWs problem, but in the logic of public servers: they are empty at first/sometimes and most players won't connect to empty server for obvious reasons. it's a phenomen called "the critical mass". Solution is very simple: bots and/or public will to stay on the servers even if you would be the only one, but I just can't see this happen (even though I personally idle on FFA servers if i'm alone).

About ezQuake: Menus could be improved. I can't remember if the latest version includes the mouse option if not it should, more options (btw. excellent work with teamsays!) *edit. I checked that serverbrowser thing out and.. is it just me or is that thing kind of... stupid/complicated/whatnot..

and how about demo at the startup? They have such on every modern videogame...(of course it could be turned off without tweaking). *.edit. the console screen to which ezquake spawns to is not atractive, I bet it's effective but there should be some fancy menu startup also (which could be turned off)

Interesting thought!

Maybe that someone who'll do all the work here could fix the ffa server problem also! E.g. by puting 5 bots to the ffa server -> and when there are 5 *real* players, the bots will disappear. Of course they can always be reduced along with players joining. 5 at first, to get players, then 4 when 1 player joins, 3 when there's 2 players etc. Then you wont just "idle" on the server. Shouldn't be that hard to fix for someone who's got the skillz0rz. And when 5 real players are fraggin' another 5 will always come along to help out! :-].

Good luck!
2006-07-20, 09:44
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Mar 2006
About ezQuake's menus: I think the menu should be totally remade since nowdays people don't play with 320x200 resolution and the current design is obviously created for small resolutions/somewhat antique technique.

This may seem like an unimportant thing, but I'd say menus and such play important role. So, I'd say get rid off the list-type menus and do something more graphic with proper (and mayby even animated) background.

Quote:
Interesting thought!

Maybe that someone who'll do all the work here could fix the ffa server problem also! E.g. by puting 5 bots to the ffa server -> and when there are 5 *real* players, the bots will disappear. Of course they can always be reduced along with players joining. 5 at first, to get players, then 4 when 1 player joins, 3 when there's 2 players etc. Then you wont just "idle" on the server. Shouldn't be that hard to fix for someone who's got the skillz0rz. And when 5 real players are fraggin' another 5 will always come along to help out! :-].

Good luck!

This matter was under discussion but got postponed because of lack of interest ( http://quakeworld.nu/forum/viewtopic.php?pid=7049#p7049 ). Nevertheless, I got impression that including Frog/FreakBot wouldnt be impossible, but rather easy. I may be wrong, since I don't know shit about these things.

KTX-developers, Consider this Bot-issue from the FFA point of view. As we all know FFA often keeps the games alive/bring newbies.
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2006-07-20, 16:37
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Mar 2006
There are so many threads about the same subject so ill just post my 2 cents here. Imo easily the best advertisement for qw would be QuakeTV and/or streaming. Id go with streaming if i recall correctly that QuakeTV needs a qw client. Imagine you could spam gaming sites with the stream address and voila they see high quality 1on1/4on4 games without doing really anything. It would bring more publicity and attract way more ppl than anything could atleast in the short run.

just my 2 cents
2006-07-21, 06:32
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Jul 2006
i was thinking to start this project at the end of the summer since now there is alot of people inactive.
I'm going to make a list of what is needed and what posistions are filled...
but the most important right now is that we get a programer..
just for some of menu and simular in the begining
2006-07-23, 09:28
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Jan 2006
adde wrote:
i was thinking to start this project at the end of the summer ...

Very goodi
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