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Server Talk
2017-01-16, 07:34
News Writer
840 posts

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Jan 2006
If you install a fresh nQuakesv and a fresh nQuake and try to change map to 'skull' it will disconnect you as the skull.bsp on the client doesn't match the server
2017-01-16, 17:32
Administrator
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Jan 2006
which one is the correct one?
never argue with an idiot. they'll bring you back to their level and then beat you with experience.
2017-01-16, 18:55
Member
301 posts

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Feb 2006
Does it matter? Just re-download the map from the connected server
ProjectQ1Q3, Frogbot Waypoint and Map Conversion Tutorial @ http://mickkn.mooo.com
2017-01-16, 19:21
Member
319 posts

Registered:
Nov 2006
But the correct one would still be interesting.

Here is the md5 hash from the one on the Dybbuk - server. I have no idea whether theses the right or the wrong one though.

9a28cc3181d1e69dae9a3642cc0a26d1 quake/id1/maps/skull.bsp
2017-01-16, 19:58
Administrator
171 posts

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Sep 2015
Vertices: 2248 vs 2248 = 0
Edges: 4130 vs 4130 = 0
Faces: 1740 vs 1740 = 0
Planes: 703 vs 703 = 0
SurfaceEdges: 8132 vs 8132 = 0
TextureInfo: 205 vs 205 = 0
Nodes: 770 vs 770 = 0

Every vertex in the same place, so should be identical...
Only change in .bsp lump sizes is LUMP_VISIBILITY, so assume it was re-vissed?
(edit: also content differences in 'faces' (maybe vertex re-ordering? i'm not going any deeper into this) and 'leafs')

No idea which is the more recent tho.
2017-01-16, 23:57
News Writer
840 posts

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Jan 2006
The problem is that the client version of nQuake has the map INSIDE one of the .pk3 files.... before i go and do that I really want to make sure it is the correct version on the server first...
2017-01-17, 04:59
News Writer
840 posts

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Jan 2006
wow, to make this even more interesting. I checked the md5 of BOTH the client and the server version of the files and they matched so I extracted the client version out of nquake.pk3 and put it in the qw/maps folder and i was magically able to connect to the server.

So the problem is that loading a map out of a .pk3 file is the problem.
2017-01-17, 05:16
Member
163 posts

Registered:
Feb 2011
I think it's more than just a .pk3 problem. The skull mismatch issue has been known for a long time and many people have tried to consolidate all the servers to have the same version, but no luck thus far. Even if you delete it from the .pk3 and download it from one server, another server will have a "different" version and you'll have to delete you local copy and reconnect to re-download. The biggest problem is since nquake comes with skull within a .pk3, most people don't know what to do when the map changes to skull and they're disconnected. It's not that trivial for a noob to know what to do, especially if the file is lurking in a pk3. I've seen many servers empty out because of this when /skull is voted.

There's a similar issue with 2 versions of zjumps floating around, very annoying!
2017-01-17, 10:14
Member
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Registered:
Feb 2006
last time I saw this issue, the bsp had become corrupt somehow (specifically an edge, resulting in a single deformed surface somewhere iirc), so there was no question about which file was the definitive version, although stopping that server from using it is impossible without harassing the server's admin.

the checksum is only calculated according to only certain lumps. this means entities, vis, leafs(contains the offsets into the vis data), and node(no idea why) lumps can be changed without kicking players.
so you can exclude some walls from the vis nodes+leafs so they never get drawn, you can revis the entire map, but you can't change the lighting to be fullbright...
maybe someone just wanted coloured lighting and ran the wrong tool.
moo
2017-01-17, 11:10
News Writer
840 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
dirtbox wrote:
wow, to make this even more interesting. I checked the md5 of BOTH the client and the server version of the files and they matched so I extracted the client version out of nquake.pk3 and put it in the qw/maps folder and i was magically able to connect to the server.

So the problem is that loading a map out of a .pk3 file is the problem.

what is even more strange. i tried to go to skull once again and again the problem appeared , even after i previously solved it

in the end i deleted both local copies and got the server copy
2017-01-17, 13:12
Member
232 posts

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Feb 2006
The definitive version, as released by Zaka himself, was at http://www.saunalahti.fi/zakaa/skull.bsp for a long, long time. Spirit mirrored it at https://www.quaddicted.com/files/maps/multiplayer/skull.zip long before any contradictory versions came along to cause this clusterfuck

Problem solved
vb.drok-radnik.com
2017-01-19, 12:53
News Writer
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Jan 2006
vb- wrote:
The definitive version, as released by Zaka himself, was at http://www.saunalahti.fi/zakaa/skull.bsp for a long, long time. Spirit mirrored it at https://www.quaddicted.com/files/maps/multiplayer/skull.zip long before any contradictory versions came along to cause this clusterfuck

Problem solved

This confirms that the nQuake client package has the offending .bsp.... i left the server unchanged and replaced skull.bsp with the quaddicted skull and it works.
2017-01-20, 09:20
News Writer
840 posts

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Jan 2006
and then it only works on some servers and not others....
2017-01-20, 16:48
Administrator
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Jan 2006
dirtbox wrote:
and then it only works on some servers and not others....

at least nQuakesv servers have the right file, if it doesn't work somewhere, its the server admin to fix,

soon ill update nquake and put the right file. ty
never argue with an idiot. they'll bring you back to their level and then beat you with experience.
2017-01-21, 12:31
News Writer
840 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
unfortunately to further the problem, it seems that newly installed nQuake servers have the wrong one, old nQuake servers have the correct one.

I installed all of these servers in the following order with all of them simply using nQuakesv and nothing else.

mel.besmella.com:28501 - correct skull
<insert some months>
nz.besmella.com:28501 - wrong skull
ade.besmella.com:28501 - wrong skull
syd.besmella.com:28501 - wrong skull
jp.besmella.com:28501 - wrong skull (very recent)

so this means the current nquakesv has the wrong skull but the old version had the correct one.
2017-09-13, 22:11
Member
17 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
Old topic, but let me summarize some findings:

There are at least three versions circulating:
1) The original that's mentioned above (hosted on quaddicted and the old qw.nu maps archive)
2) The one that is shipped with the nQuake client and that's on quakeworld.uk servers
3) The one that is shipped with the nQuake server

1 and 2 actually result in the same checksum, because only the visibility set has changed. (Thanks to meag for checking!)
Which one of the two has the "better" or "newer" visibility set we cannot easily say.

All I know is that it's difficult for newbies to play skull, because they probably downloaded nQuake and most servers run an incompatible version of the map.
In order to fix it they would have to unpack the nquake.pk3 file, delete skull and repack it again. To remedy that we just updated the maps in the nquakesv distribution.
It contains now the version from quaddicted (the original) which is compatible with the nQuake version.

TL;DR
Server admins please update your map pool by either running the update_maps.sh script (if you run nQuakesv) or download the ZIP file manually at http://fnu.nquake.com/sv-maps.zip and unpack into the appropriate location nquakesv/qw/maps.
2017-09-14, 16:49
Member
319 posts

Registered:
Nov 2006
Can you post the md5 or sha for reference too?
2017-09-14, 16:49
Member
319 posts

Registered:
Nov 2006
Can you post the md5 or sha for reference too?
2017-09-14, 19:28
Member
17 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
Here are the MD5 hashes of the BSPs, Tuna:

skull-nquake.bsp: 9a28cc3181d1e69dae9a3642cc0a26d1
skull-nquakesv.bsp: 91194f7de99e3059ddbc75608558b915
skull-orig.bsp: 5d2dcc50c7df4f38a868543c545bff76
2017-09-15, 08:36
Member
319 posts

Registered:
Nov 2006
Thanks.

fnu.nquake.com Seems down though. So ist rsync.nquake.com. But looks like nquake.quake1.de was able to pick up the changes. Dybbuk Servers updated.
2017-11-19, 04:25
Member
69 posts

Registered:
Aug 2014
I reinstalled from the nquakesv linux server distribution like a week ago and still had the faulty skull version.
Just updated it on my servers from the link in this thread. Really hard to believe it's still broken at the source...
2017-11-19, 07:49
Administrator
2031 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
BREADLORD420 wrote:
I reinstalled from the nquakesv linux server distribution like a week ago and still had the faulty skull version.
Just updated it on my servers from the link in this thread. Really hard to believe it's still broken at the source...

When installing nQuakesv (on Windows but should be same distfiles) i get a skull version with hash 5d 2d cc 50 c7 df 4f 38 a8 68 54 3c 54 5b ff 76 which is according to what eb writes above and thus correct? At least i can join the server with an nQuake client without updating maps first.
www.facebook.com/QuakeWorld
2017-11-19, 17:22
Member
69 posts

Registered:
Aug 2014
Ah, you know what, this was my mistake from my server update process.
Thanks for replying, though!
2017-11-22, 09:24
News Writer
253 posts

Registered:
May 2006
ztndm4 have 2 versions too:
MD5 (ztndm4_.bsp) = 308fcd8f4db3b52883b27ee08c777eea
MD5 (ztndm4.bsp) = 8440c7fdb637d44fb7d5eb3f6be94b6f
401892 ztndm4_.bsp
402204 ztndm4.bsp

What is correct?

And some slide maps too.
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