User panel stuff on forum
  39 posts on 2 pages  First page12Last page
General Discussion
2016-10-24, 09:49
Member
93 posts

Registered:
Oct 2011
I saw in the qtv chat that there was abit of talk about dm6 not being in Thunderdome. So I thought it would be fun to do a poll.
So whats your train of thought in the matter. Discuss

DM6 poll
2016-10-24, 14:24
Administrator
833 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
I say let's try out bravado this season and see how it goes.
Poll afterwards.
IRC went Discord -> join the chats @ discord.quake.world
2016-10-24, 14:37
Member
285 posts

Registered:
Sep 2012
It's too bad bravado's fixes have been dictated by the USSR because there's still room for improvement
But dm6 is still really boring, and there's a lot of new maps to try, for example pipeup is shaping up pretty well. so keeping 2-3 maps from tb5 and having some new ones each time would be the best option, it worked pretty well in QL.
2016-10-24, 15:10
Member
93 posts

Registered:
Oct 2011
I just wanted to see what people thought about it. Dont want to change anything now.
2016-10-24, 15:59
Member
266 posts

Registered:
Jan 2015
yes
dev
2016-10-24, 16:59
Member
137 posts

Registered:
Feb 2012
I was originally against removing any maps and am still very much against it. dm6 should be brought back for those who want to play it or don't want to play new maps. we need 1 more map for a 7-map pool.
“If I wanted you to understand it, I would have explained it better.” (c) Johan Cruyff
2016-10-24, 18:35
Administrator
833 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
Drake wrote:
I was originally against removing any maps and am still very much against it. dm6 should be brought back for those who want to play it or don't want to play new maps. we need 1 more map for a 7-map pool.


I 'think' I agree on this.
BO5 + bravado + pipeup (or other)
Try that for next season. Plenty of time to test pipeup before that!
IRC went Discord -> join the chats @ discord.quake.world
2016-10-24, 19:57
Member
67 posts

Registered:
Aug 2014
Drake wrote:
I was originally against removing any maps and am still very much against it. dm6 should be brought back for those who want to play it or don't want to play new maps. we need 1 more map for a 7-map pool.


Maybe there should be more tournaments, over shorter timeframes and with fewer players?

Consider how fast you could test a few 'possibly viable' duel maps in one-day (region-locked?) tournaments.

Between the huge existing map pack, new maps from foogs/drako and things like the prominence pack , there are a lot of interesting and good duel maps that most of the community does not even know about. You won't go to jail for trying these maps, and dm6 will still be there afterward!
2016-10-25, 00:59
Member
81 posts

Registered:
Jul 2009
z0mbie90 wrote:
I saw in the qtv chat that there was abit of talk about dm6 not being in Thunderdome. So I thought it would be fun to do a poll.
So whats your train of thought in the matter. Discuss


A firm NO! All duel dmX maps are garbage that should be tossed away.
2016-10-26, 20:13
Member
350 posts

Registered:
Sep 2009
dm6 is the worst 2x2 map ever....
1x1 is ok though....

drowsy wrote:
All duel dmX maps are garbage

what about the BEST 1x1 MAP of ALL ---> dm4
(QW Nickname: AL.Kernell)
2016-10-27, 01:13
Member
81 posts

Registered:
Jul 2009
wernerml wrote:

what about the BEST 1x1 MAP of ALL ---> dm4

Everybody knows dm4 is deeply flawed. We need to put a couple of megas in the YA/RA room, shaft, more cells and rox.
2016-10-27, 02:00
News Writer
835 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
Replacing dm6 with bravado was the reason Australia didn't have a Thunderdome this season.

Bring back dm6... if the real reasons for removing dm6 are for the purpose of getting bravado in to the map rotation (and not just for the purpose of replacing dm6 with anything other map that is available) then the ideal option would be to ADD another map making a 7 map pool. For example spinev2 is a great duel map that was often used in tourney's in Australia....

dm6 is a great map for strategy but from what I have seen, most people don't know how to play it past the 'sit at GL with LG' strategy. People should be timing mega and red which make it very exciting but no one seems to be up to the task.
2016-10-27, 02:47
Member
81 posts

Registered:
Jul 2009
dirtbox wrote:

dm6 is a great map for strategy but from what I have seen, most people don't know how to play it past the 'sit at GL with LG' strategy. People should be timing mega and red which make it very exciting but no one seems to be up to the task.


Why would you leave gl/ra area? IIRC, locktar could not kill locust even once in their final match on dm6.
Leaving for mega is risky, you can easily lose control. From what I've seen in the top players' duels, going for the mega is not a good strategy.

It is a crappy map anyways. Replace GA with YA and it might be playable.
2016-10-27, 03:53
Member
67 posts

Registered:
Aug 2014
dirtbox wrote:
dm6 is a great map for strategy but from what I have seen, most people don't know how to play it past the 'sit at GL with LG' strategy. People should be timing mega and red which make it very exciting but no one seems to be up to the task.


I sorta 'know' all the major tactics for dm6 but I find the map an absolute bore to play in 1v1 and 2v2. After a certain point, I stopped playing it to focus on the other maps that aren't as dry (that includes dm4). That said, I hated dm2 for a long time as well and I'm starting to come around on it. Maybe I'll try dm6 again at some point?

In the mean time, what's wrong with having a bit of variety and trying some of the maps people spent a lot of time creating?
It's not like winning an international tournament where half the matches are played with a gigantic ping difference means something anyway, right? We're all playing this game to have fun, right?
2016-10-27, 10:05
Member
458 posts

Registered:
Mar 2008
Good riddance! More tournament organizers should have taken Thunderdomes path years (decades!) ago
2016-10-27, 10:05
Member
458 posts

Registered:
Mar 2008
Good riddance! More tournament organizers should have taken Thunderdomes path years (decades!) ago

edit: Double post ftw!
2016-10-27, 11:30
Member
458 posts

Registered:
Mar 2008
It's not like it's illegal to run an old school map competition or dm6 only competition either
2016-10-27, 13:08
Administrator
166 posts

Registered:
Sep 2015
drowsy wrote:
It is a crappy map anyways. Replace GA with YA and it might be playable.


On badplace, try dm6#alt ... GA with YA, cells in top corridor removed, shells tucked away under stairs at YA are now cells instead.

Other alternatives on there: dm2#nonails (ssg instead of nailgun, nails now shells) and dm2#sng (sng, + some shell packs too).
2016-10-27, 13:52
Administrator
1218 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
meag wrote:


On badplace, try dm6#alt ... GA with YA, cells in top corridor removed, shells tucked away under stairs at YA are now cells instead.

Other alternatives on there: dm2#nonails (ssg instead of nailgun, nails now shells) and dm2#sng (sng, + some shell packs too).



^^ this

dm6s main problem is the players - the "stay at GL and shoot LG" strategy is lame. Its the best duel map if it wasn't that.
someone should add a bar on GL to prevent players from shooting down with lg there
never argue with an idiot. they'll bring you back to their level and then beat you with experience.
2016-10-28, 03:01
News Writer
835 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
That unfortunate tactic came in to play around the same time as antilag...
2016-10-28, 04:23
Administrator
833 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
dirtbox wrote:
That unfortunate tactic came in to play around the same time as antilag...


Nono, way longer back. But maybe in AU. It's a smart position on the map, what more to say. Just change mappool a season and see how it go.
IRC went Discord -> join the chats @ discord.quake.world
2016-10-28, 04:23
Administrator
833 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
dirtbox wrote:
That unfortunate tactic came in to play around the same time as antilag...


Nono, way longer back. But maybe in AU. It's a smart position on the map, what more to say. Just change mappool a season and see how it go.
IRC went Discord -> join the chats @ discord.quake.world
2016-10-28, 16:38
Member
213 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
dirtbox wrote:
That unfortunate tactic came in to play around the same time as antilag...


What about a tournament with these three options disabled?
- antilag
- fakeshaft
- fallbunny.

.. would make dm6 fun.
2016-10-28, 20:19
Member
67 posts

Registered:
Aug 2014
Maybe if that's what it takes to make dm6 fun it's..a bad map?
Just spitballing here.

(Edited 2016-10-29, 03:27)
2016-10-29, 02:02
Member
81 posts

Registered:
Jul 2009
dirtbox wrote:
That unfortunate tactic came in to play around the same time as antilag...

Makes no sense. It is the optimal strategy, that's why people use it. As a dm6 player you should love it, free mega

That's the problem with maps like dm4/dm6, just standing in the centre doing nothing is too strong.
I have no idea why people cling on to this old shit.
2016-10-29, 04:50
Member
266 posts

Registered:
Jan 2015
drowsy wrote:
dirtbox wrote:
That unfortunate tactic came in to play around the same time as antilag...

Makes no sense. It is the optimal strategy, that's why people use it. As a dm6 player you should love it, free mega

That's the problem with maps like dm4/dm6, just standing in the centre doing nothing is too strong.
I have no idea why people cling on to this old shit.


It has been discussed so many times that I really don't know if there is anything to add. But I can't help it, this is my point:

Methodical, systematic players tend to dislike maps that require more abstract/subjective virtues/skills like intuition, improvisation and creativity. "Unbalanced" maps give more space for the unexpected to happen, just because you should be more certain of what to expect in a given situation, like when a player has control or positioning advantage. We've got plenty of examples of unexpected things, like beautiful innovative plays or extremely exciting comebacks that have happened on those so called unbalanced maps. Most of the times it requires more than aim, movement and timing, and that's why some people have fun with those maps, and some people don't.

Yesterday I was watching (again) SuddendeathTV's VOD of the Duelmania QCon. In the WB finals, GT faced Rikoll at dm6 on the first map. Rikoll spawned red and had the positional advantage over gt that spawned mega, but GT won the first fight by using a technique he uses quite often on dm6, which is to do wide cj's on a ledge or platform while fighting to avoid the blast radius damage (He used this same technique against Locktar on Duelmania Worldwide). After that they traded frags, then GT spanwned red and managed to get another kill and the LG, which should technically mean gaining control of the map. But guess what, GT lost the map.

These "unbalanced" maps force us to develop, discover new tricks, strategies and virtues like patience, intuition. Come on, is there anything more "unbalanced" than to spawn on DM4 mega room when you're loosing? If you look at how this room exit has evolved over the past 20 years, it is amazing what kind of skills people developed. When I see the rockets Locktar can land from that narrow corridor down there on his opponents sitting on the higher ground, in a quick strafe right, it's like he's on wall hack.

Why give up on all that? Just because it's not architecturally or mathematically balanced?
dev
2016-10-29, 15:31
Member
67 posts

Registered:
Aug 2014
andrestone wrote:
Why give up on all that? Just because it's not architecturally or mathematically balanced?


I don't think people are complaining about balance. Your post is the first one in the thread with the word balance in it.

All the maps (and the game mechanics) in qw are more imbalanced than in the other quake games. Even aerowalk, and especially ztndm3 (when it comes to the spawns). There's tension from imbalance in just about every aspect of qw. This game thrives on it.

I don't dislike dm6 because it's imbalanced. I dislike it because it easily degenerates into boring games where one player barely has to lift a finger to stay in control. Maybe sometimes the player in control makes a mistake, and something exciting happens. Most of the time it's just boring and bad, compared to just about any other map people take seriously.

Even your example on dm4 (rocketing from the mega exit to the upper middle) is something that relies a great deal on the opponent making a mistake (rather than you doing something well). Fortunately on dm4, spawning at mega is 'just one life' and you can go on afterward. On dm6, one death can mean the enemy gets a full stack and then sits at a perfect camping spot for the next 5 minutes. It's completely reasonable, it's imbalanced like everything else in qw, but it's below the threshold of what I'm willing to spend time on. Life is short!
2016-10-29, 18:47
Member
81 posts

Registered:
Jul 2009
andrestone wrote:


Yesterday I was watching (again) SuddendeathTV's VOD of the Duelmania QCon. In the WB finals, GT faced Rikoll at dm6 on the first map. Rikoll spawned red and had the positional advantage over gt that spawned mega, but GT won the first fight by using a technique he uses quite often on dm6, which is to do wide cj's on a ledge or platform while fighting to avoid the blast radius damage (He used this same technique against Locktar on Duelmania Worldwide). After that they traded frags, then GT spanwned red and managed to get another kill and the LG, which should technically mean gaining control of the map. But guess what, GT lost the map.


Bad example.
1. gt is not a controlling player, and he was playing the best dueller in the world.
2. gt does those circle jumps on every map.
3. Again, when Locktar played Locust, nothing worked for him for 10 min.

Why are you clinging to these old maps? Why, oh why do we have to play 3 maps for eternity? 20 years is not enough for you? Are you saying they are ideal and we should never switch away? How about we play some other maps for 20 years, just to compare?

Also, imagine the situation was reversed, and we had 5 nice 1on1 maps for 20 years. Then a noob map maker, let's call him "andrestone", comes, and presents his 2 new maps, "dm6" and "dm4". How fast do you think he will be trolled away from the qw community for posting such garbage here? Poor bravado went through multiple revisions even though the first version is aready way better than any of the dm2/4/6.

Again, why do you people cling on to this old shit? You can still play it in prac games and "classical" tournaments, no problem. We are not erasing old garbage entirely. We are just saying that maybe, oh maybe, 20 years of playing 3 shitty maps is enough?

Honestly, you remind me of old people who refuse to ever change anything. "I have been wearing these pants for 20 years, they are perfectly fine!!!"
2016-10-30, 00:57
Member
266 posts

Registered:
Jan 2015
BREADLORD420 wrote:
Most of the time it's just boring and bad, compared to just about any other map people take seriously.


If difficult means boring for you, I have to agree.

BREADLORD420 wrote:
It's completely reasonable, it's imbalanced like everything else in qw, but it's below the threshold of what I'm willing to spend time on. Life is short!


Play LoL or CS:GO instead. You will easily get out of the bad bad positions with less effort.
dev
2016-10-30, 01:10
Member
67 posts

Registered:
Aug 2014
andrestone wrote:
BREADLORD420 wrote:
Most of the time it's just boring and bad, compared to just about any other map people take seriously.


If difficult means boring for you, I have to agree.

BREADLORD420 wrote:
It's completely reasonable, it's imbalanced like everything else in qw, but it's below the threshold of what I'm willing to spend time on. Life is short!


Play LoL or CS:GO instead. You will easily get out of the bad bad positions with less effort.


Removed. Behave people, consider this your one and only warning. / mods
  39 posts on 2 pages  First page12Last page