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European Quake League
2016-01-24, 16:51
News Writer
273 posts

Registered:
May 2006
I got a suggestion, not sure if it works but here goes.

After getting back into QW it seems to me that the 4 vs 4 scene is pretty much dead. And seeing EQL 20 being one big div i guess that tells you a lot. For me it seems that you got a lot of pointless games that dont do much for 4 vs 4.

How about transforming EQL into a 2 vs 2 league? You will then get a lot of teams and you can fill up lots of divs.

How about letting the 4 vs 4 scene do tournaments instead, duelmaina/thunderdome style? With so few teams i think that might be better.

As it is now, a 2 vs 2 EQL would work nice. Its gonna be boring doing 4 vs 4 with only 3-4 teams on your same level.

Well, that was it.
Link, we are not even oldtimers anymore, we are dinosaurs. - Hooraytio
2016-01-24, 16:59
Member
41 posts

Registered:
Nov 2013
There was a 2v2 league started some time ago but some teams really need to be pushed to play there games.
It seems that the majority likes more 4v4 games then 2v2 games if it is for competition.

www.refragged.com

greetings veRRo
2016-01-24, 17:09
News Writer
273 posts

Registered:
May 2006
Well if you cant get 2v2 league games played then there is not much hope for 4v4 league games lol
Link, we are not even oldtimers anymore, we are dinosaurs. - Hooraytio
2016-01-24, 17:51
Administrator
880 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
Keep EQL to 4on4.
2on2 can be held in other shells.
You might wanna read up on the actual activity level of recent seasons of EQL. This one's about EQL20.
Join us on discord.quake.world
2016-01-24, 17:59
Administrator
636 posts

Registered:
Nov 2008
Link, I'm not sure where you're getting your information about 4on4 being dead from. The last EQL was a blast. Which EQL have you been watching?
2016-01-24, 23:48
News Writer
273 posts

Registered:
May 2006
Well ye it might, but i thought the 400-20 games were history. Looking at the +/- frags for the upper and lower teams something tells me its wrong, thats all.

Whats the point of rapes really?
Link, we are not even oldtimers anymore, we are dinosaurs. - Hooraytio
2016-01-25, 08:26
News Writer
1267 posts

Registered:
Jun 2007
I will keep EQL purely 4on4.

About the uneven games: players know beforehand what they are up against and I have also put in A, B and C playoffs to make the end of the season a little bit more exciting and even for most of the clans.

However, at 16 or more clans I will consider making 2 divisions as Ive said before.
Chosen
2016-01-25, 09:55
News Writer
273 posts

Registered:
May 2006
Well i was just browsing trough the played games section on EQL 20 and it just seemed that 7-8 out of every 10 games was pretty much gg before it even started. I am not entirely convinced this is the way to keep the 4on4 scene going if you are looking for competitive 4 vs 4, as EQL is proclaimed to be. Not sure it promotes QW in a very good way either. Skillah might think that C88 vs DIV99 was epic but i seriously thought those times were history.

Having said that if ppl want rape games, sure why not, have fun

What i am saying is that if you dont have enough teams for divisions then why play that system. And since i have not seen 1 regular clan prac for 3-4 weeks, in the month of January with 20 below outside, then i wonder how that is going to improve. If you need EQL to fire up activity then i wonder why we have "long" breaks between seasons (summerbreak i understand).

I just thought that a 2vs2 EQL div system with 40-50 teams participating in 4-5 divs would do more good for QW than spawnrapes.

But hey, thats just me
Link, we are not even oldtimers anymore, we are dinosaurs. - Hooraytio
2016-01-25, 10:29
News Writer
221 posts

Registered:
Jan 2013
As someone who's been on the receiving end of many of these rapes, I say stick to the 4on4.
2016-01-25, 10:35
News Writer
273 posts

Registered:
May 2006
Im not saying we dont do 4vs4, just saying we should consider the format due to the current state of QW.

Gotta love those mixes erlend.
Link, we are not even oldtimers anymore, we are dinosaurs. - Hooraytio
2016-01-25, 10:54
News Writer
1267 posts

Registered:
Jun 2007
The real divisional system of EQL has not been used for a long time now since we havent promoted/demoted teams based on the previous season. This is mostly due to the fact that too many teams quit/start/reform/whatever in between seasons.

Divisions have since then mostly been used to sort all the clans in 2 or more different groups based on skill. You cant really compare EQL divisions to divisions in lets say football.
However, as of late there has been too few teams to make more than 1 division.

Anyway, EQL has always been about having fun and also deciding the best 4on4 team out there at the moment.
I say we should continue to do that despite some games being pretty damn uneven.

There is always room for 2on2 tournaments on the side but I am not going to run them under the EQL "brand".
Chosen
2016-01-25, 10:58
News Writer
273 posts

Registered:
May 2006
Hooraytio wrote:
Anyway, EQL has always been about having fun and also deciding the best 4on4 team out there at the moment.
I say we should continue to do that despite some games being pretty damn uneven.


So your saying we cant have fun and decide the best 4on4 team, without having uneven games?

And i did not mention 2on2 tournaments. I said 2on2 div system like EQL, with 40-50 teams in 4-5 divs. That does not attract you?
Link, we are not even oldtimers anymore, we are dinosaurs. - Hooraytio
2016-01-25, 11:01
News Writer
1267 posts

Registered:
Jun 2007
I think it will be hard to play 4on4 with the current base of clans/players without any uneven games yes.
Feel free to check out earlier seasons with as many as 6-7 divisions and see if all those games have been even.

Also, it is totally up to the players to participate in EQL, I start a new season, declare the maps and rules and yet somehow ppl still sign up and play.
I think I must be doing something right even tho I know Im not doing everything right.

I am not interested in playing 2on2 or running a 2on2 tournament/cup/league/ladder.
Chosen
2016-01-25, 11:07
News Writer
273 posts

Registered:
May 2006
Thanks for your answers and your conclusion
Link, we are not even oldtimers anymore, we are dinosaurs. - Hooraytio
2016-01-25, 11:32
News Writer
221 posts

Registered:
Jan 2013
Link wrote:
... due to the current state of QW.

Not sure what you're referring to here. Last EQL was a blast, with 13 active teams and 72 out of 78 group stage games played.

Even if mix activity seems low atm or whatever, my impression is a lot of people show up again when EQL is back.
2016-01-25, 11:58
News Writer
1267 posts

Registered:
Jun 2007
EQL 21 site is online btw, just need a new logo and finalize the rules/maps/system and I can open the signups.
Chosen
2016-01-25, 12:00
News Writer
273 posts

Registered:
May 2006
Did not say anything about mix. I said i have not seen a regular clan prac for 3 weeks. Mix is what it is.

I guess this is blast:

Very fun game

And as stated before; If you need EQL to have activity, then we shouldnt have breaks between seasons. Just reset and go again.
Link, we are not even oldtimers anymore, we are dinosaurs. - Hooraytio
2016-01-25, 13:08
News Writer
1267 posts

Registered:
Jun 2007
Taking one of the most one sided games as proof of 4on4 being boring.



What is this I dont even...


About the breaks between seasons: Im working as fast as I can, and tbh, the breaks now are shorter than they used to be.
Chosen
2016-01-25, 13:26
News Writer
273 posts

Registered:
May 2006
Hooraytio wrote:
Taking one of the most one sided games as proof of 4on4 being boring


Ok lets do this chronologically, from the played games page;

Game 01: 924 - 014
Game 02: 753 - 119
Game 03: 550 - 124
Game 04: 894 - 041
Game 05: 598 - 125
Game 06: 564 - 088
Game 07: 638 - 044
Game 10: 675 - 143
Game 11: 485 - 145
Game 12: 618 - 109

....should i continue and list all one sided games or do you still want to use the argument above?
Link, we are not even oldtimers anymore, we are dinosaurs. - Hooraytio
2016-01-25, 13:34
News Writer
1267 posts

Registered:
Jun 2007
Could you perhaps just tell me what your point in all this is?
4on4 is boring so we should play 2on2 instead?
QW is boring so we should watch TV instead?

Im just going to go ahead and run another 4on4 season, lets see how many clans we can get.


Also, is it a surprise that the scores will look like that when you look for the top vs bottom games?
I see you removed games 8 and 9 in order to make it look even worse, way to go
Also, since almost all games got played even though it was rather one sided tells me that ppl didnt get bored as much as before, we have never seen this high percentage of games played before.
Chosen
2016-01-25, 17:06
Administrator
636 posts

Registered:
Nov 2008
4on4 in QuakeWorld tend to have big scores, no matter which level you're at. I wouldn't say Suddendeath 2 is a bad team, but if we're faced against FOM we'll probably get quite raped. That's just how the game works and how it has ALWAYS worked. You can go back as many years as you'd like and you'll still see similar rapes between teams. It sounds to me that you simply don't enjoy 4on4 because of that very factor - that rapes happen?

Div99 is currently the weakest team in the scene, yet they don't complain whatsoever about getting raped. They're happy to play and try the competitive parts of 4on4 which is awesome.

You also don't normally see pracs when it's off season. I don't remember ever seeing pracs between teams when there was no EQL/NQR to play. At least not during my time in QuakeWorld.

Let's also remember that you named this thread "About EQL" and that you suggested to somehow reform the one 4on4 tournament that we have. If you want 2on2 tournaments, go ahead and organize one and hopefully people will sign up, but 2on2 is way way way more casual than 4on4 and people treat it as such as well.

EQL should (and probably will) stay the same. It is our only 4on4 league today and we love it.

If you don't enjoy 4on4, don't play it. You are not forced to sign up for EQL. If you enjoy 2on2, play it. If you want a 2on2 tournament, organize one.
2016-01-25, 17:12
Administrator
636 posts

Registered:
Nov 2008
Link wrote:
Im not saying we dont do 4vs4, just saying we should consider the format due to the current state of QW.


I don't understand this part. First you want EQL to become 2on2. Then you say that we shouldn't quit playing 4on4, but consider the format? How do you change a 4on4 format and still stay 4on4? What part of EQL do you think needs to be reformatted, but still stay 4on4?

It looks to me that you're arguing for the sake of arguing O_o I don't see any points anywhere.
2016-01-25, 17:51
News Writer
273 posts

Registered:
May 2006
Kind of sad to see that you dont bother to read what i wrote.

Would be better if you read it again instead of me quoting myself to answer your questions?
Link, we are not even oldtimers anymore, we are dinosaurs. - Hooraytio
2016-01-25, 18:01
News Writer
221 posts

Registered:
Jan 2013
Andeh wrote:
4on4 in QuakeWorld tend to have big scores, no matter which level you're at. I wouldn't say Suddendeath 2 is a bad team, but if we're faced against FOM we'll probably get quite raped.

This is true. Two divisions won't solve things either, SD1 and FoM will rape most of the Div1 teams anyway, and D99 will be raped by a fair number of the Div2 teams. The only way to avoid (the biggest) rape games would be to exclude SD1, FoM and D99 from EQL, ie. excluding the best and worst players/teams. Not a solution.

These scores are just how QW is.
2016-01-25, 18:39
Member
397 posts

Registered:
Feb 2006
Haha Link is back in full swing! Link, you're always focusing on problems rather than solutions Last EQL was great and there's no need to change anything if we will have the same amount of teams next seasons. If we have a few more, then splitting it into 2 divisions would be great. Div99 are all rookies and they are learning fast. It won't be long until they get closer and closer to the other teams. We have all been there, as no one is born a qw superstar. When I started playing in 2000 I loved playing the top clans and trying to do better than last time. If you keep on trying, you will be a top player yourself one day, that's just the way the cookie crumbles!

And as for 2on2, if there was enough demand people would start 2on2 leagues. I really have no interest in playing 2on2 myself, I can think of a million better things to do. 4on4 and the occasional 2on2/1on1 is all I want from QW.
2016-01-25, 21:11
Member
17 posts

Registered:
May 2006
I feel it's worth mentioning the following.
In recent years in my opinion draft league has been successful and enjoyable for everyone playing (and not just div0 teams).
There are two main reasons for this in my opinion:
1. Create a level playing field. As captains the top players pick from a pool of players until teams are formed.
2. Less skilled players get an opportunity to team up with elite players and hopefully in the process get some nice tutoring, tips & tricks and more from the better players.

I noticed that Ocoini has started new draft tourney just recently, but from what I can tell the turn up was disappointing though. There are a quite a lot of players who afaik are still active but I've not seen their name during the draft picks on Ocoini's vod. Players like Kingpin, Wimpeeh, Skillah, Moltas, Cara, Rikoll... and the list goes on. Of course it doesn't mean that this will not be a good tourney. I will definitely be watching these games!

Anyway, this post was basically meant to tell Link about my point of view when it comes to 4v4 in qw and how it can still be a fun way to play for everyone.

greetz
2016-01-25, 23:42
Administrator
2059 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
Only thing I'd change last season would be to make it two divisions, even if it would only mean 5-6 games in the group stage for each team. Maybe this would make it possible for teams to go around on less players as well and still get the games played.

2on2 tournaments seem to be hard to pull off successfully and is a vastly different game mode, probably not as interesting to many EQL players.

Welcome back btw, Link
www.facebook.com/QuakeWorld
2016-01-26, 02:20
News Writer
221 posts

Registered:
Jan 2013
Two divisions is not a bad idea. If there are only 5-6 games to be played in group stage, it might be easier to split a large team, or for just a few guys to get together and make a random EQL21 team. D99R had 20 signed up players last EQL, D99B had 10. True, 9 of those 30 never played a map, but still, 21 active to semi-active players to make up two teams? In a Div 2 with lesser games in group stage, that could've been at least 3 D99 teams. (Would've made some more interesting games too, more teams with even skill level.)
2016-01-26, 07:39
News Writer
1267 posts

Registered:
Jun 2007
There would have been 2 divisions if there was 16+ teams.
Realistically tho, how would you divivide the 15 teams we had into 2 divisions?

FE, PARAS and LB all did pretty well vs the higher ranking clans wich leaves D99 in a class of their own. (perhaps together with WG but they didnt play at all)
Given the amount of games played even when I used one large division I dont see how EQL20 could have been any better with 2 divisions with the clans we had.
Chosen
2016-01-26, 15:54
Administrator
636 posts

Registered:
Nov 2008
Link wrote:
Kind of sad to see that you dont bother to read what i wrote.

Would be better if you read it again instead of me quoting myself to answer your questions?


Humm, I read everything that you wrote. Kind of sad that you don't respond to anything that I wrote.
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