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2012-12-26, 09:52
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Not sure how this discussion is bringing the development of nQuake2 forward.

1) I'm going to use Q2pro - I need help compiling it.

2) I tried making jpegs out of some high res textures - they didn't work in R1Q2. Something about a header in the error message.

3) Are there any nice high res MODEL textures?

4) Need help with getting together a decent config file. Preferably it should be incredibly fucking awesome.
2012-12-26, 16:36
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The installer is pretty much finished now. It's a better installer than the one for nQuake (1).

I added the choice of downloading textures seeing as they are quite large.

http://nquake.com/nquake2v10_installer.exe

Another question that needs answering: what files do I need for Action Quake II and "vanilla" Quake II? I get a lot of error messages when connecting to a server, due to missing files. Sounds, textures, etc.

I would like to have a chat with someone who knows his shit about Quake 2. Query me on IRC (Empezar).
2012-12-26, 19:48
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empezar wrote:

Not sure how this discussion is bringing the development of nQuake2 forward.


But... http://xkcd.com/386/


empezar wrote:

Another question that needs answering: what files do I need for Action Quake II and "vanilla" Quake II? I get a lot of error messages when connecting to a server, due to missing files. Sounds, textures, etc.


Action Quake II requires a lot of additional files.

We host various downloads for the mod here: http://tastyspleen.net/quake/downloads/mods/action_quake/

The main download being the 206 MB action.zip

Here are the individual files we use on the server: http://tastyspleen.net/~quake2/action/


As for vanilla Quake II, the contents of the 3.14 demo and 3.20 point release only provide enough data to play the deathmatch maps (q2dm1-8 and match1).

In order to play the single player maps, the 175 MB pak0.pak is needed, which is only (legally) available by purchasing the game.

If you have examples of specific files which were listed in the error messages, I can help identify whether they are part of the pak0.pak data.


empezar wrote:

I would like to have a chat with someone who knows his shit about Quake 2. Query me on IRC (Empezar).


BTW, which IRC network are you on?


Regards,

quadz
2012-12-26, 20:22
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quadz wrote:
Action Quake II requires a lot of additional files.

We host various downloads for the mod here: http://tastyspleen.net/quake/downloads/mods/action_quake/

The main download being the 206 MB action.zip

Here are the individual files we use on the server: http://tastyspleen.net/~quake2/action/


Are all those files needed to play? Can I re-package the files however I want without breaking some license? (I have a thing for clean folders.)


quadz wrote:
As for vanilla Quake II, the contents of the 3.14 demo and 3.20 point release only provide enough data to play the deathmatch maps (q2dm1-8 and match1).

In order to play the single player maps, the 175 MB pak0.pak is needed, which is only (legally) available by purchasing the game.

If you have examples of specific files which were listed in the error messages, I can help identify whether they are part of the pak0.pak data.


[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] sprites/null.pcx [404 Not Found] [40 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] action.filelist [404 Not Found] [39 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] sound/tng/no_team_wins.wav [404 Not Found] [38 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] sound/tng/team1_wins.wav [404 Not Found] [37 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] sound/tng/team2_wins.wav [404 Not Found] [36 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] sound/tng/team3_wins.wav [404 Not Found] [35 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] sound/tng/1_minute.wav [404 Not Found] [34 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] sound/tng/3_minutes.wav [404 Not Found] [33 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] sound/tng/1_frag.wav [404 Not Found] [32 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] sound/tng/2_frags.wav [404 Not Found] [31 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] sound/tng/3_frags.wav [404 Not Found] [30 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] sound/tng/impressive.wav [404 Not Found] [29 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] sound/tng/excellent.wav [404 Not Found] [28 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] sound/tng/accuracy.wav [404 Not Found] [27 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] sound/tng/clanwar.wav [404 Not Found] [26 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] sound/tng/disabled.wav [404 Not Found] [25 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] sound/tng/enabled.wav [404 Not Found] [24 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] sound/misc/flashlight.wav [404 Not Found] [23 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] sound/boss3/bs3idle1.wav [404 Not Found] [22 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] sound/user/letsrock.wav [404 Not Found] [21 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] sound/makron/laf4.wav [404 Not Found] [20 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] sound/insane/insane3.wav [404 Not Found] [19 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] sound/insane/insane7.wav [404 Not Found] [18 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] sound/insane/insane1.wav [404 Not Found] [17 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] players/male/ctf_r_i.pcx [404 Not Found] [16 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] players/male/ctf_b_i.pcx [404 Not Found] [15 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] players/male/ctf_y_i.pcx [404 Not Found] [14 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] players/male/w_mk23.md2 [404 Not Found] [13 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] players/male/w_mp5.md2 [404 Not Found] [12 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] players/male/w_m4.md2 [404 Not Found] [11 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] players/male/w_cannon.md2 [404 Not Found] [10 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] players/male/w_super90.md2 [404 Not Found] [9 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] players/male/w_sniper.md2 [404 Not Found] [8 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] players/male/w_akimbo.md2 [404 Not Found] [7 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] players/male/w_knife.md2 [404 Not Found] [6 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] players/male/a_m61frag.md2 [404 Not Found] [5 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] players/male/ctf_r.pcx [404 Not Found] [4 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] players/male/ctf_b.pcx [404 Not Found] [3 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] textures/E1U1/GRASS1_3.wal [404 Not Found] [2 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] textures/E2U3/DOOR01.wal [404 Not Found] [1 remaining file]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] textures/E3U3/GRASS1_2.wal [404 Not Found] [0 remaining files]


quadz wrote:
BTW, which IRC network are you on?


I'm on QuakeNet
2012-12-26, 22:16
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Dec 2012
empezar wrote:
Are all those files needed to play? Can I re-package the files however I want without breaking some license? (I have a thing for clean folders.)

As far as I know they're needed, but my knowledge of Action Quake 2 is limited.

There appears to be no license or copyright information contained in action.zip.


empezar wrote:
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] sound/boss3/bs3idle1.wav [404 Not Found] [22 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] sound/makron/laf4.wav [404 Not Found] [20 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] sound/insane/insane3.wav [404 Not Found] [19 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] sound/insane/insane7.wav [404 Not Found] [18 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] sound/insane/insane1.wav [404 Not Found] [17 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] textures/E1U1/GRASS1_3.wal [404 Not Found] [2 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] textures/E2U3/DOOR01.wal [404 Not Found] [1 remaining file]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] textures/E3U3/GRASS1_2.wal [404 Not Found] [0 remaining files]

These are from the main Q2 pak0.pak. To the best of my knowledge, one would have to purchase the full game to obtain these.


empezar wrote:
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] players/male/ctf_r_i.pcx [404 Not Found] [16 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] players/male/ctf_b_i.pcx [404 Not Found] [15 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] players/male/ctf_y_i.pcx [404 Not Found] [14 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] players/male/ctf_r.pcx [404 Not Found] [4 remaining files]
[2012-12-26 22:18] [HTTP] players/male/ctf_b.pcx [404 Not Found] [3 remaining files]

Not sure the ultimate origin of these. On my system they're in a pak3.pak, which contains the following README file:

Quote:
REViLLA Pak Version 1.0
www.revilla.nildram.co.uk
30/12/00

Based on an original pak given to me by RailDen but with various additions from my previous pak
and paks I have discovered since then.

Enjoy



The rest of the missing files looked to me like they're part of action quake.


Hope this helps,

quadz
2012-12-27, 06:12
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Dec 2012
The original Action Quake 2 install files are as follows in their original zips:

http://q2online.net/dist/action/actn1Ccl.zip - Action Quake 2 1.0c by A-Team (don't use the game dll, it's very outdated)
http://q2online.net/dist/action/1cCLfix.zip - Content fix by A-Team
http://q2online.net/dist/action/vwepfix.zip - Content fix by A-Team
http://q2online.net/dist/action/tng_clientpak_1.5.zip - Not latest but greatest AQ2-TNG content by the TNG team, this is the preferred version, official release by the AQ2-TNG team, newer client content has crappy announcer sounds no one wants to use [sorry Igor])
http://q2online.net/dist/action/aq2-tng-ebbe069-windows.zip - Latest AQ2-TNG dll built from my git, you can build it yourself of course (use my TNG as the game dll anyway)
http://q2online.net/dist/action/aq2-tng-ebbe069-linux.zip - Same for Linux
http://q2online.net/dist/action/aq2world.zip - Contains various Q2Online specific default configurations and improvements (for menu configuration, you seriously need a proper q2pro.menu file), you can peek inside to figure out if you want to use anything

Maps have never been part of official AQ2 installation. You might need to use original zips to extract some of them or stick with HTTP downloading as for the majority of sane AQ2 servers we have a proper HTTP repository for map content (extracted original .zips with some caution taken).

In addition, the Q2Online default config enables texture remapping (softlink) which resolves some demo texture problems present in some AQ2 maps. The way id packages textures for each map and mappers used them causes some issues that can be resolved with soflinking all identically named original id textures to their aliases. Overall, all textures can't be fixed without using the full version Quake 2 pak0.pak.

EDIT:
Also, I think every other client than recent enough Q2PRO from git incorrectly downloads whatever case the textures are in the .bsp file instead of lowercasing them. This causes serious problem with the HTTP downloading repo unless you use some apache tweak to make the repo case insensitive. Our repo does not have such tweaks and relies on the client being smart enough to lowercase files before downloading and when saving to mod folder. This also ensures that on case sensitive systems like Linux and OS X the downloaded resources are properly named and loaded with other maps using the same files.
2012-12-27, 06:55
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hifi wrote:
Also, I think every other client than recent enough Q2PRO from git incorrectly downloads whatever case the textures are in the .bsp file instead of lowercasing them. This causes serious problem with the HTTP downloading repo unless you use some apache tweak to make the repo case insensitive.


Agreed; this is what we use for q2http.tastyspleen.net:

RewriteMap lowercase int:tolower
RewriteCond $1 [A-Z]
RewriteRule ^/(.*)$ /${lowercase:$1} [R=301,L]
RewriteRule ^(.*)\\(.*)$ $1/$2 [R=301,L]


-quadz
2012-12-27, 10:04
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Dec 2012
quadz wrote:
Agreed; this is what we use for q2http.tastyspleen.net


As a side note, would Tastyspleen mind working with AQ2World to get the AQ2 servers in-sync with everyone else? We have this worldwide domination going on and it would be great to have everyone hosting major AQ2 servers to work together.

I'm also on QuakeNet if you could PM me if interested.
2012-12-28, 00:28
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hifi wrote:
As a side note, would Tastyspleen mind working with AQ2World to get the AQ2 servers in-sync with everyone else? We have this worldwide domination going on and it would be great to have everyone hosting major AQ2 servers to work together.


Sounds good. We currently run two AQ2 servers, one for FFA, one for TDM. (Hmm, the TDM server appears to be down at the moment.)

In any case, assistance in improving their configuration would indeed be welcome.
2012-12-28, 00:59
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Apologies for the off-topic post, but I think I must have communicated poorly. I'd like to attempt to address the apparent miscommunication:

hifi wrote:
quadz wrote:
Granted AC only works on Windows, but then most of the Q2 population and most of the hacks are also on Windows. So long as one takes care not to unjustly exclude non-Windows clients, AC can be helpful.


And you force people to use specific clients and client versions. Not all like that.


But we don't force specific clients and versions by default. Here's a list of the 90+ different Q2 client versions that have connected to our Dallas servers in the past 26 days:

http://pastebin.com/fjzz06Sb


As an admin I like having finer-grained options than the BANHAMMER.

When problematic behavior occurs on the servers, i like to use the most narrowly-targeted administrative response available.

This is why I've developed tools like the "half mute" for Q2, as well as automated tools like the temporary banning of spammed phrases (which instead just temp-bans the specific spammy bind, not the whole player's ability to talk.)

Anticheat has been another such tool in the toolkit: If a player appears to be cheating, the only option used to be BANHAMMER. Instead, we're now able to begin with forced anticheat on the player's specific IP. Of course, if the player were among the rare set of non-Windows cheaters, then this imposition of forced AC would be tantamount to a ban. Which is no worse than the old days. But in most cases, forced AC means the player can still play, which is an improvement over the old BANHAMMER system.

(And this is done with the full knowledge that AC is a fundamentally imperfect system at a theoretical level. In practical terms it functions similarly to a half-mute: the player can still choose to take their obnoxious behavior a step further, but they have to undertake a more deliberate effort toward that end.)


hifi wrote:
quadz wrote:
On the contrary, r1ch jumped through the proper hoops to avoid GPL entanglement with the standard r1q2/anticheat distribution.

anticheat.dll is dynamically linked, and instead of bundling it with r1q2, it is an optional download which is managed by the R1Q2Updater module which runs on the client system.

However, if we are currently distributing anticheat.dll as part of our Q2S bundle, then this is arguably a GPL violation and we should change the package so that anticheat.dll is not bundled.


ezQuake's anticheat was exactly like that, an external library loaded by the client. It was GPL incompatible as previously stated.


A popular misconception about how the GPL works is that it has the ability to dictate how programs may interact once they've been installed on one's system. This is not the case.

GPL covers copying, distribution and modification of software. It does not control what one does with files once they're on one's computer.

A person separately downloading an optional closed-source .{dll,so} binary and placing it in a directory to be loaded by a previously-installed GPL application, does not violate the GPL. (If anyone thinks it does, I recommend taking a time-out from this discussion to come up to speed on how the GPL actually works.)


hifi wrote:
I don't see any future for any anticheat for any open source game. Server side detection of 'weird' behaviour is something that can be used to monitor and report possible cheaters to admins and even then it can only be used as a trigger for manual inspection. I've seen such thing misused in TF2 to ban mediocre players so I'm not a big fan of such systems. It's what old Q2Admin did/does with ratbot detection IIRC.


Partially agreed here. Q2Admin's auto-detection heuristics are indeed so prone to false-positives as to be worse than useless.

But yes: theoretically it might be possible to code sufficiently advanced server-side analysis of client behavior as to usefully detect potential cheating patterns and report them to admins. An idea I recall proposing about 8 years ago was to crunch data from {dozens,hundreds} of Q2 demos of legit players vs. known aimbotters and use these to train a server-side neural network, to perhaps produce a network capable of differentiating between legit movement characteristics, vs. the moves of botters. Whether that's truly feasible in practice I don't know. Certainly any approach that could achieve useful results would be welcome.

In any case, with a decade of professional game development on my resume, I understand the concepts. And as an admin, I'd happily add such a tool to the toolkit if it existed.

In the meantime, I have about five years of non-theoretical experience that suggests that narrowly-targeted use of forced Anticheat has had a more positive effect on our Q2 community than when our only option was the "BANHAMMER".

Ideologically, I'm agreed with you: I don't like Anticheat conceptually either. (Especially because it ultimately reduces to a form of security through obscurity. Client-side AC is guaranteed hackable.)

Nonetheless, having known all that (and indeed having argued it privately with r1ch from the beginning), AC has proved to be a useful tool, used judiciously.


Regards,

quadz
2012-12-28, 10:09
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Dec 2012
If, the anticheat system would be more open and had some sort of automatic client whitelisting for trusted developers so we could rebuild and enable anticheat on-the-fly without messing around with anything, it could've been more useful in your said usage with more people on the team improving it.

I still dislike the discrimination against non-AC players that it causes. At least it sets them up as potential cheaters yada yada, you already know my points.

Anyway, I'm not that familiar with GPL I could sign what I said. As I understood the protection module for ezQuake was removed because of GPL issues and as far as I know it works the same way - non-GPL dll/so loaded by the game, distributed separately.

Working on a better Q2Admin heurestic would be more productive if it can be tested with skilled players in a way they don't trigger it too easily. I'm not that good of a developer I could ever do that so someone else needs to take the lead on it if it is something we can use and implement.

As for banning, I worked on a QuakeID project a few years back that allowed registration for players. That way you could enforce registration for some ips as a ban measure or have registration only servers. It's way more client friendly way to keep unwanted players away. The project itself was abandoned but the idea behind it is still good IMO. The only issue is how to identify people when they register to the system. The very least it protects your own name from misuse if it also enforces that your name can only be used by you when logged in.
2012-12-28, 11:44
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hifi wrote:
As for banning, I worked on a QuakeID project a few years back that allowed registration for players. That way you could enforce registration for some ips as a ban measure or have registration only servers. It's way more client friendly way to keep unwanted players away. The project itself was abandoned but the idea behind it is still good IMO. The only issue is how to identify people when they register to the system. The very least it protects your own name from misuse if it also enforces that your name can only be used by you when logged in.


Ah, right on. I've been occasionally daydreaming about implementing a system like that for Quake II. I figure it could work as a wrapper around the game module (same way Q2Admin works.)

If someone joined the game from a restricted subnet and were not registered, then they'd get dumped into sort of a lobby where they could perhaps still spectate but not play. (And there'd be instructions for how to become registered.)

For less-restricted subnets, it might be possible to dynamically register from within the lobby, perhaps by entering an email address to which the server sends an activation password. Upon receiving the email and going back to the game and typing in the activation password, the server could then possibly even automatically download a .cfg file directly to your client containing your registration keys. (Alternately, instead of the activation password, the server could just email the .cfg file with instructions to place it in the baseq2 folder.)

A bonus challenge then becomes shielding the contents of the .cfg file from malicious server operators who might say, "hey come join my server!" and when you connect they stuff commands to read your registration data. I've thought about this a bit, and should be possible to add enough indirection to the process, with hashing of keynames, combined with sets of keys which are only valid during certain date/time ranges, etc., to render such phishing attempts impractical.

So I believe it's technically workable, and I agree it would be nice to have such a system (and of course one can also link one's registered account to player stats tracking databases, etc., which would be a lot nicer than the way it is now where we have to pretty much just go by playername.)

Anyway... As the saying goes, it's all merely a Small Matter Of Programming.

Regards,

quadz
2012-12-28, 11:57
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hifi wrote:
Anyway, I'm not that familiar with GPL I could sign what I said. As I understood the protection module for ezQuake was removed because of GPL issues and as far as I know it works the same way - non-GPL dll/so loaded by the game, distributed separately.

I don't know where the line is drawn, if it's enough to just distribute it as two different files as "Click here and here to download" to not violate GPL. Anyway, I was more referring to the fact that the ezQuake security module made use of GPL-code but was still closed source. I don't remember the whole story of why it was removed, but I'm fairly sure it was more annyoing than useful.

Quoting GPL website:
Quote:

If a program released under the GPL uses plug-ins, what are the requirements for the licenses of a plug-in?

It depends on how the program invokes its plug-ins. If the program uses fork and exec to invoke plug-ins, then the plug-ins are separate programs, so the license for the main program makes no requirements for them.

If the program dynamically links plug-ins, and they make function calls to each other and share data structures, we believe they form a single program, which must be treated as an extension of both the main program and the plug-ins. This means the plug-ins must be released under the GPL or a GPL-compatible free software license, and that the terms of the GPL must be followed when those plug-ins are distributed.

If the program dynamically links plug-ins, but the communication between them is limited to invoking the ‘main’ function of the plug-in with some options and waiting for it to return, that is a borderline case.
2012-12-28, 16:06
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Quote:
If the program dynamically links plug-ins, but the communication between them is limited to invoking the 'main' function of the plug-in with some options and waiting for it to return, that is a borderline case.


Incidentally, so far as I can tell, r1ch's anticheat.dll would appear to be even less of a borderline case. The only DLL function the Q2 client would seem to call is Initialize() with no parameters. (The DLL presumably then spawns a thread and goes off about its business.)


Quote:
If the program dynamically links plug-ins, and they make function calls to each other and share data structures, we believe they form a single program, which must be treated as an extension of both the main program and the plug-ins. This means the plug-ins must be released under the GPL or a GPL-compatible free software license, and that the terms of the GPL must be followed when those plug-ins are distributed.


Indeed. It's frustrating their FAQ entry makes such a sweeping statement without putting it in context of the mechanism by which GPLv2 functions. (Modulo the usual I Am Not A Lawyer disclaimer, of course.)

When a plug-in does share data structures with a program, it's usually because they have some source code (header files) in common. If these header files (i.e. the plug-in API) are already GPL, then the plug-in might be considered a derivative work and need to be distributed under the GPL. (Although interestingly Richard Stallman himself has stated that header files usually don't have this effect: "Our view is that just using structure definitions, typedefs, enumeration constants, macros with simple bodies, etc., is NOT enough to make a derivative work. It would take a substantial amount of code (coming from inline functions or macros with substantial bodies) to do that.")

But of course even when a plug-in can be compiled without relying on any GPL code, the GPL program itself is still prevented from being distributed with any such non-GPL plugins, in the usual GPL copyleft fashion.

So far, so good.

But there's no mechanism in the GPL that gives it the ability to reach out and infect independently distributed non-GPL works.

For an example of how absurd such a thing would be, consider the way most web browsers support a common plug-in API (NPAPI). Next, someone writes a GPL web browser capable of hosting NPAPI plug-ins, and says: Aha! Now all the browser plug-ins of the world must be released under the GPL, because my GPL browser can load them. After all, we make function calls to each other and share data structures! Release QuakeLive sources now!

It's obvious nonsense, but it's pretty much what their FAQ above has tried to claim. Thankfully the GPL has no such magical powers.
2012-12-28, 22:58
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quadz wrote:
But there's no mechanism in the GPL that gives it the ability to reach out and infect independently distributed non-GPL works.

For an example of how absurd such a thing would be, consider the way most web browsers support a common plug-in API (NPAPI). Next, someone writes a GPL web browser capable of hosting NPAPI plug-ins, and says: Aha! Now all the browser plug-ins of the world must be released under the GPL, because my GPL browser can load them. After all, we make function calls to each other and share data structures! Release QuakeLive sources now!

It's obvious nonsense, but it's pretty much what their FAQ above has tried to claim. Thankfully the GPL has no such magical powers.

Well obviously, I don't think anyone here has even tried to say your wrong about that?

I was merely wondering where to draw the line in a case where it's the same developers behind the main program and the "plugin", the main program is designed for the plugin and vice versa, it's distributed and developed by the same people, but the only thing that differs is that it's hosted on another site/page/host (whatever).

In the ezQuake case the closed source security module was using GPL'ed code, thus definitly violating GPL.
2012-12-29, 02:11
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dimman wrote:
Well obviously, I don't think anyone here has even tried to say your wrong about that?


Apologies for being so long-winded.


dimman wrote:
I was merely wondering where to draw the line in a case where it's the same developers behind the main program and the "plugin", the main program is designed for the plugin and vice versa, it's distributed and developed by the same people, but the only thing that differs is that it's hosted on another site/page/host (whatever).


I'm sure if someone tried to game the system, the precise line would have to be drawn by the courts.

I would think relevant factors would include:

- Whether the plug-in is optional to the primary functioning of the program.
- Whether the plug-in is downloaded and installed separately by action of the user, rather than bundled or automatically installed by the GPL program itself.
- Whether the plug-in conforms to an API that is supported by multiple programs.

In the specific case of r1ch's anticheat, the plug-in can be loaded by R1Q2, EGL, AprQ2, and (formerly) q2pro. It is a separate install done at the user's request, rather than bundled (* except in the case of our Q2S installer, which as I'd acknowledged earlier, we should fix.) On the other hand, I suppose it's debatable whether anticheat is optional to the primary functioning of Q2, once servers start forcing it.

Frankly though, since there appears to be in fact zero communication at all between the Q2 client and anticheat.dll, it would seem to avoid all the criteria mentioned in the GPL FAQ relating to plug-ins. As such, it's probably even OK that it's bundled with Q2S - though we should probably un-bundle anyway it to avoid controversy.


dimman wrote:
In the ezQuake case the closed source security module was using GPL'ed code, thus definitly violating GPL.


Understood & agreed.


Regards,

quadz


Edit:

In any case, my hope is that we may have reached a few points of agreement based on the discussion so far:

- there appears to be no way r1ch's anticheat.dll could violate GPL if optionally distributed
- there's apparently no way (based on the GPL FAQ) that r1ch's anticheat.dll even violates GPL if bundled (no communication with Q2 client)
- the GPL FAQ section on plug-ins clearly overstates GPL's reach (cf. thought experiment on closed-source NPAPI web browser plug-ins vs. GPL browser)
2013-01-01, 14:05
Administrator
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Jan 2006
I'm pretty much finished now.

I'd call this RC1.

http://www.nquake.com/2

Only thing missing is a homepage.
2013-01-03, 02:30
Administrator
2058 posts

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Jan 2006
Fixed two serious bugs where pak0.pak wasn't copied and registry entries weren't added. QSB had wrong default settings due to this.

Also, website is up. Graphics not done yet. Slogans aren't done either. Perhaps more youtube links in the footer...

During the summer (hopefully, otherwise I will fail school), I will release Linux and Mac OS X versions of nQuake2. I will also start working on an nQuake2sv package.
2013-09-18, 07:54
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2058 posts

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Jan 2006
nquake2.com

Linux and Mac versions are delayed. Server version too.
2013-09-23, 22:51
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1 post

Registered:
Sep 2013
empezar wrote:
My latest work can be seen here: nquake.com/2

Use the "fnu.nu" mirror for the latest distfiles.

And please note that this is a work in progress. The installer graphics aren't done yet, and some options during the install are missing (such as textures and associations).

I haven't even started with the config files yet. Please brainstorm your ideas here.


I dl and enjoyed it! (Kinda) I found the Gravity really fun. 2 things bothered me a lot. When we die- we cant spawn..
Any key we hit it scrolls some message about going back to game.

I cant open and play the Game in SP mode!! Any Installer I use once we use our own pak0.pak can run the game
like normal.
You are ALLOWED to build upon any variant and obey the GPL. I see everyone has FINALLY "stolen" my idea fo adding a browser into the installer?!
I noticed after I released the Q2 Russian w. Browser. OVER 70% of installer contain it now.
P.S. Could you link me to the SRC please.

Well- maybe we can throw our ideas around? Oh- I seen QW but- there is NO reason why Q2 should be so dam archaic! Agree?!
(GtG my Pitbull is jumping all over me!!)

Your text to link here...
2013-10-03, 08:18
Administrator
2058 posts

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Jan 2006
I believe I have outlined in the readme how to run singleplayer? It doesn't work even with the full pak0.pak?

Source can be downloaded here:

http://sourceforge.net/projects/nquake2/files/Windows/v1.1/
2013-10-04, 18:40
Member
5 posts

Registered:
Dec 2012
My guess is that he's trying to start the single player game from the menu, in which case this line needs to be added to baseq2\default.cfg:

alias newgame "killserver; maxclients 1; deathmatch 0; map base1"

You can also add the following to your list of softlinks to allow starting the single player demo if the full version pak0.pak doesn't exist:

softlink maps/base1.bsp maps/demo1.bsp

As for not being able to respawn after dying while in single player mode, you're probably using an outdated baseq2\gamex86.dll (you can get an updated version from the latest Q2PRO release).
2013-10-06, 09:03
Administrator
2058 posts

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Jan 2006
Fixed, hopefully.
2013-10-13, 20:11
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2058 posts

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Jan 2006
2013-10-13 - nQuake2 v1.3

* Setup now also looks for setup files in the installer folder.
* Fixed the bug where the installation folder would sometimes not get removed.
* Fixed the bug where the setup files folder would get removed even if it wasn't empty. (This could cause pretty much damage if the files were downloaded to e.g. D:\.)
* Fixed the bug where Quake 2 point release v3.20 would not get downloaded if the full version pak0.pak had been located.
* Fixed the bug where setup would create q2config.cfgs for Eraser Bot and Capture The Flag even if they were not installed.
* Minor bug fixes and code improvement.

2013-10-11 - nQuake2 v1.2

* Added addon support.
* Broke CTF and Eraser Bot free from the base package and turned them into addons.
* Added high resolution textures addon.
* Merged the distribution files page with the mirror select page.
* Fixed the bug where the download size would not be properly calculated.

Source code can be found on GitHub: https://github.com/empezar/nquake2/releases
2014-03-16, 12:37
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Jan 2006
2014-03-16 - nQuake2 v1.5 for Windows

* Added option to re-download setup files during installation.
* Added option to remove setup files during uninstallation.

2014-02-16 - nQuake2 v1.4 for Windows

* Setup now checks if pak0.pak exists at copy destination before copying it.
* Fixed the bug where file copies (pak0.pak/pak1.pak) were displayed (Explorer copy files) during setup.
2014-03-17, 13:38
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2058 posts

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Jan 2006
Just released nQuake2 for Linux.
2014-03-18, 11:05
Member
343 posts

Registered:
Feb 2006
What about Mac ?
ProjectQ1Q3, Frogbot Waypoint and Map Conversion Tutorial @ http://mickkn.mooo.com
2014-03-20, 16:21
Administrator
2058 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
Mick wrote:
What about Mac ?


I don't have a Mac anymore.
2014-04-03, 09:42
News Writer
912 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
haha thats funny. Back when Q2 first game out I figured out that if you installed the Q2 Demo and then installed the latest point release from the full version on the demo then installed some official map packs and set the client to download everything you could play on most servers especially if it had custom mod like jailbreak or generations... I made a webpage step by step how to do it

http://www.sparky.hdc.com.au/freequake2/ - Unfortunately long gone and not crawled by archive.org.
You can see it on this page though https://web.archive.org/web/20001216060500/http://games.hdc.com.au/quake2/
"Or if you cant afford it and want it anyway head on over to" and then it links to my free q2 page
2014-12-04, 15:46
Member
10 posts

Registered:
Jun 2009
EXCELLENT STUFF!
I highly praise this project

Next you'll probably do nQuake3

Anyway, was wondering if you can make it by default to use WASD + mouse controls, especially after pressing "reset to defaults" option.
Then have it setup ready for competitive play, eg:

Q(5) - minigun
E(6) - grenade launcher
R(7) - rocket launcher
F(8) - hyper blaster
C(9) - railgun
X(0) - BFG
CTRL/SPACE - crouch/jump
similar to how QuakeLive defaults.

mouse2 - rocket launcher + immediate shoot
mouse3 - railgun + immediate shoot
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