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General Discussion
2012-03-08, 16:36
News Writer
646 posts

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Mar 2006
Please help me test HoonyMode by connecting to qw.quakephil.com:28500 electing /hoonymode and playing!

HoonyMode (originally proposed by Hoony during cpma development?) is a duel mode designed to eliminate spawnrape and to promote map control and intelligent play. Everything is the same as /1on1 except "fraglimit 1" and two key changes: scoring and spawning.

1) Scoring is done in a way similar to tennis, and with respawn between each frag (or suicide hehehe)
2) Spawning is done as usual, except the next point's spawns are actually the previous point's spawns reversed. For example:

* Both players /ready on DM6 and countdown begins, announcing "1st point"
* Bjorn_Borg spawns at RA, Pete_Sampras spawns at GL (and script remembers this)
* They fight it out and Pete_Sampras wins (score is Pete_Sampras 1, Bjorn_Borg 0)
* Countdown for next point begins, announcing "2nd point"
* Script now spawns players at opposite spawns, so: Pete_Sampras at RA, Bjorn_Borg at GL
* They fight it out and Bjorn_Borg wins (score is now tied: Pete_Sampras 1 0, Bjorn_Borg 0 1)
* Countdown for next point begins, announcing "3rd point"
* Now there is a new set of spawns that is selected as in a usual /1on1 (and remembered) so maybe:
* Bjorn_Borg spawns at low GA and Pete_Sampras spawns at top GA
* Next point, Bjorn_Borg will spawn at top GA and Pete_Sampras at low GA
* etc

Point play continues until at least 6 points have been played and the score difference is 2 or more points. After the final point (aka set point) is played in favor of the score leader, the map goes to intermission as usual, showing the total point score.

Scoring can be changed, I picked "6" and "2" after tennis

Also, the mod announces who is "serving" during the countdown but this is mostly cosmetic. Tell me if it is confusing at all... It should be useful to keep track of spawns (so if you're serving first, you know when you serve that's when there is a new spawn, if you're serving second, you know that you will be spawning last point's spawns reversed)

Also, perhaps a less "safe" spawn model than default /1on1 can be used in hoonymode, since each spawn is played in reverse as well the next point, so wackier spawn pairs can be allowed?

Please tell me any bugs/bad things that you see.

Some known bugs:
* The map has to be reset between points (without doing a map reload) and I cover most of the important stuff like armors and backpacks, but is anything missing? For example, the dm6 LG door will close just in time between points, but is that clean/acceptable?
* /lastscores counts all points, when it should only count the final point score (cmd dlist seems to be working fine though)
* ezquake cancels/restarts auto console logging and recording between points - how to prevent this? (I looked at ezquake src, nothing obvious...)

Example demo here: http://qw.quakephil.com/hoonymode.mvd (testing is done using two laptops hehe)
2012-03-08, 16:42
Member
950 posts

Registered:
Apr 2006
I'll gladly have a look tonight at it!
2012-03-08, 17:06
News Writer
493 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
Quite an interesting mode, Phil. Sounds pretty cool. I see one problem though. In the first point, players don't know where the other spawned, but when spawns are reversed both sides know exactly where the other is. This can lead to an advantage to the player who (using your example) spawned at GL, because he can be extra sneaky/careful knowing his opponent spawned RA (and avoid getting killed at RA by rushing it and instead going to mega). Maybe the game should announce the spawns to fix this?
2012-03-08, 17:17
Member
51 posts

Registered:
Oct 2011
It's a shame that Hoony mode never really caught on in the CPMA community.
2012-03-08, 17:17
News Writer
646 posts

Registered:
Mar 2006
Yeah I thought about that, but I wanted in-game feedback about it before thinking too hard

(The "fairest" solution would be for the players to select a set of spawns beforehand... But this means more potentially unnecessary code. Announcing the spawns also requires code to name the spawns and so forth... Maybe loc files could be used)
2012-03-08, 17:50
News Writer
493 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
you can just stuff "say %l" to each player once countdown ended
2012-03-08, 18:01
News Writer
646 posts

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Mar 2006
That will tell them their current spawn (which they already know lol), but not the enemys?
2012-03-08, 18:40
Member
186 posts

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Jan 2008
But both tell their current spawn to each other so you see both your own and his?
Sounds like a cool mode though, nice with something new.
2012-03-08, 18:42
Member
792 posts

Registered:
Feb 2006
reverse order of spawning after point 2, i.e. Pete_Sampras spawns first after the first set of points. That should even it out a bit, though i don't think it's a big problem anyway.

Would be cool to get this on a euro server as well so we can test this under normal conditions.

edit: ok that doesn't make sense. but anyway, i don't think the GL-spawning player has an advantage in that scenario, even though he knows that enemy is at RA. he's not getting the RA for one, also the RA guy knows that the other guy is at GL as well. plus, after point 2 (points 3 and 4) any advantages/disadvantages could even out completely again.
spawn luck isn't completely eliminated but it should play out ok. i like the idea.
2012-03-08, 21:56
Member
950 posts

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Apr 2006
qw-dev.net:27500 has it on for now.
2012-03-08, 23:49
News Writer
646 posts

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Mar 2006
deurk: you need to enable it in .cfg by adding 128 to k_allowed_free_modes, something like this:

set k_allowed_free_modes 159 // allowed free modes (bit mask):
// 1=1on1, 2=2on2, 4=3on3, 8=4on4, 16=10on10, 32=ffa 64=ctf 128=hoonymode
2012-03-09, 08:42
Member
950 posts

Registered:
Apr 2006
Thanks. I put 256 instead of 255, now hoonymode is available on the previously mentionned port in EU.
2012-03-09, 08:44
Member
1433 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
ezQuake looks for the "status" field in the serverinfo and once it changes to "Standby", match end will be detected. Also, awesome idea!
2012-03-09, 14:14
News Writer
646 posts

Registered:
Mar 2006
Thanks johnny. I hope this will take care of /lastscores also

An improvement to the code would be to add a current point stats on the scoreboard (as it is now, it resets to 0-0 after every point because I'm using caveman style fraglimit 1, and only shows the final score at the final scoreboard during intermission)
2012-03-10, 01:04
News Writer
646 posts

Registered:
Mar 2006
Here's a test video: http://youtu.be/HiJXWPVi2J8

Some things already on the todo list: it should be first to 6 points (not combined 6 points of player 1 and 2) so 4-2 should continue play until 6-2, for example

Score should be displayed during point/between points, right now its being reset to 0/0
2012-03-10, 13:31
Administrator
1245 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
i've heard about this mod back in 2000, but i never played it before
just played, and i must say it suits my style
each spawn is a survival, you gotta camp and play mind games
damage opponent, get armor before he does.
i didn't test it thorouly (heahah), it seemed "finished"

congrats.
i hope there's a league going on soon. i would definitely participate!
never argue with an idiot. they'll bring you back to their level and then beat you with experience.
2012-03-10, 13:33
Member
1433 posts

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Jan 2006
Can't wait to try it on dm4. Just a random idea: maybe there should be some timelimit? Like 120 seconds and then the player with less health/armor loses?
2012-03-13, 21:24
News Writer
646 posts

Registered:
Mar 2006
I rewrote this from scratch (now that I know how ktx works) and updated version is available for testing at qw.quakephil.com:28500

Test qwprogs.so is available on http://qw.quakephil.com/hoonymode
2012-03-13, 23:21
Member
367 posts

Registered:
Dec 2006
Up2nOgOoD[ROCK wrote:
']Quite an interesting mode, Phil. Sounds pretty cool. I see one problem though. In the first point, players don't know where the other spawned, but when spawns are reversed both sides know exactly where the other is. This can lead to an advantage to the player who (using your example) spawned at GL, because he can be extra sneaky/careful knowing his opponent spawned RA (and avoid getting killed at RA by rushing it and instead going to mega). Maybe the game should announce the spawns to fix this?

This was exactly my thoughts when I read the OP. I think having 100% certainty on 2nd set of spawns ironically introduces a significant luck element because depending on the spawn combinations it may be much easier/harder to exploit certain combinations 2nd time around if spawns are known. Let me illustrate by way of example:

The map is dm2, and one of the spawns is below quad. Knowing the opponent spawn position immediately (rather than needing to wait for sound cues) could be significant since:
-If the opponent is spawning around tele, you will probably want to go to low rl
-If the opponent is spawning around low rl, you will probably want to go to tele

Announcing the spawns at game start will reduce the problem 90% but there will still be a slight potential advantage to one player in terms of knowing what movement keys to hold during countdown second time around (probably more of an advantage on small fairly open maps like aero or dm4)
2012-03-14, 10:53
Administrator
325 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
Would be sad removing all random factors in QW. That's what povdmm4 or oldstyle arena is for.
Reducing it with 90% sounds MORE than reasonable to me, besides the spawns are reset and you probably play more than 1 round.
Some specific 1/50 scenario where u gain 10% advantage is just too miniscule to be bothered with. I think by that point the advantage doesn't go so much for the guy with better spawn, but better PC/connection setup
ready!
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