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Other Tournaments
2006-04-23, 15:11
Member
1011 posts

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Feb 2006
it'll be interesting when scores are reset and qw lg knockback implemented - to see how scores change
2006-04-23, 20:50
Member
6 posts

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Apr 2006
No, no .. It's BEING interesting. First the pl stuff, now this qw lg knockback...

Implement anything, you will see always the same thing.
2006-04-23, 23:57
Moderator
1329 posts

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Apr 2006
sfirra wrote:
No, no .. It's BEING interesting. First the pl stuff, now this qw lg knockback...

Implement anything kid, you will see always the same thing.

QW lg knockback has been the issue from the beginning, if you check that lgc thread. The point is, one isn't going to get bot in the air behind the bars with QW lg physics instead of NQ lg physics (knockback has been reduced by 37,5%).

And no, I don't think oldman is "kid" anymore... so stop using your stupid remarks.
Servers: Troopers
2006-04-24, 01:00
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11 posts

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Apr 2006
regarding all the disadvantages/advantages the bot can give..anyone who plays the bot right now, is playing in the same conditions, so is pretty fair, if u dont get high scores in this bot, which is im sorry to say, very easy to shaft, what makes u think u'll be able to make a higher score in the harder one? just my opinion, i think is equal for everyone who's trying to get high scores, is not like we have advantage over you.
and i think sfirra meant is that everyone is findind a excuse for the high scores unexpected from non euro/american players.

btw, that answer is not for oldman, ( i know his intentions are to watch the results after the implementation of qw knockback ), but for everyone that is making excuses for our high scores.

[]'s

ps : i dont have nothing against USA/Europe players, in fact i respect them a lot, i always watch the tournaments that happens in both countrys, i just dont like the crappy attitude against Brazilians.
2006-04-24, 01:41
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1329 posts

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Apr 2006
[6 wrote:
mur']regarding all the disadvantages/advantages the bot can give..anyone who plays the bot right now, is playing in the same conditions, so is pretty fair, if u dont get high scores in this bot, which is im sorry to say, very easy to shaft, what makes u think u'll be able to make a higher score in the harder one?

Agreed. But as I stated in that LGC thread, the tournament actually might get easier as the bot's lg don't push you out of reach and the bot won't be able to accelerate midair when being shot (I have 175/56% result with qw lg physics but it can't be used in this tournament or the upcoming since "the game" has only been patched for that lg pushback, not with other stuff !phil's been adding there).
Quote:
btw, that answer is not for oldman, ( i know his intentions are to watch the results after the implementation of qw knockback ), but for everyone that is making excuses for our high scores.

If so, then I misinterpreted. I also agree that one might feel insulted with these accusations, at least I did especially when I had no idea about that pl stuff that's supposed to affect the scores. It's like if you are not well known, then you can't be really good at something in qw (like shafting a bot that moves like a pregnant yak (=really shitty)).
Servers: Troopers
2006-04-24, 03:46
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6 posts

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Apr 2006
Some of them can't accept the three best shafters in the whole world are from Brasil.
And Renzo, respect me please, I was talking with oldman, I don't know the impact of the term "kid" over there, anyway, what he said was too "kiddy" for me.. "let's see what happen... bla bla". C'mon, everyone can download the demos and see how these guys play, so stop with these theories. Noone else have that performance even cheating... So I think it will be nice and easier to recognize the talent that these guys have.
2006-04-24, 07:26
Member
4 posts

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Apr 2006
Well back onto topic, I noticed that no matter what i did there was pl in my demos but occasionaly there would be a bot with 0 pl. So a quick look @ the bot source code shows this:

From arena.qc

// random bot pings & packetloss: every 2 seconds

void() updatebotpings =
{
if (time < pingupdate) return;
pingupdate = time + 2;
self = first_client;
while(self) {
if (!self.player) {
if (!self.ping_) {
self.ping_ = 113 - (self.bot_skill * 5);
if (self.ping_ < 50) self.packetloss_ = 0;
else self.packetloss_ = random() * 6; <------ Random packet loss, between (0 & 6) if the bots ping is greater than 50.
}
self.ping = floor(self.ping_ + random() * 2);
self.packetloss = floor(self.packetloss_ * random()); <----- Fixes/Sets the packetloss to between (0 & 5)
updateping(MSG_ALL, self);
updatepacketloss(MSG_ALL, self);
}
self = self.next;
}
};

Yeah, you read right, thats RANDOM packet loss if the bot has more than 50 ping, i.e. a skill 12 and below bot. I don't really know if def felt that the bots movement was below normal when he used the sys_highpriority/sys_yieldcpu combo, but there should really be no difference between a bot with pl and one without. It seems that pl may mean nothing here, but the priority/yield combo may still have an unseen effect on qc's random number generator and the bot's movement and playstyle and this effect may infact be nearly impossible to detect. Maybe to set def's and everybody else's mind at ease, !phil could set the bots packetloss to be permanently zero or something (and maybe even set it's ping too).
2006-04-24, 11:25
Moderator
1329 posts

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Apr 2006
Great find Qvr, thanks for digging that up.

Now that we know the real reason for that PL stuff, could we move on and start thinking about that new LGC tourney?
Servers: Troopers
2006-04-24, 11:47
News Writer
646 posts

Registered:
Mar 2006
Guys relax
2006-04-24, 11:48
Member
46 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
Setting sys_yieldcpu 1 seems to adversely affect the bot's skill. The bot's aim loses tracking, and his movement is linear. As I've mentioned before, prior to using sys_yieldcpu 1, I could not top 50% lg. On my first try with sys_yieldcpu 1, I was able to hit 55% LG (and able to repeat similiar results consistently). Did my LG magically improve somehow with the change of a command? No.

I have tested this myself, and a few other people (Kovaak, ]SR[Insane) have tested it as well and noted the following characteristics. It was not only statistically visible, but even to the plain eye it is extremely obvious. The bot is simply playing much worse making him easier to hit.

For example when you stand behind central spawn and LG the bot from behind as he spawns it takes him more than a second to turn around and lock his aim on you which he loses tracking of very quickly. Additionally apparent is the fact you can jump from the top spawn and the bot loses tracking of you and simply lets you fall despite alread having been tracking you and hitting you with LG. I can post a demo or two illustrating these points if neccessary. The bots dodging skills are severely reduced as well, as most of the time he just does not even dodge and moves in a single direction.

The side effect of yieldcpu 1 we noticed was the PL on the bot. QVR, thanks for clarifying what it exactly means from the source code.

I welcome everyone to try with sys_yieldcpu 0 / 1 and post how the setting reflects on their scores (remember to type /restart after you change the sys_yieldcpu in the console).

Finally regarding these pissing contests regarding who has the best LG. I've never claimed to have the best aim, I never did have the best aim, nor do I now. I'm only a competitor. I'm not trying belittle the results put up by Zip, Mur, or any other Brazilian player (who clearly have some of the best LG's in the world, regardless of everything). Try to understand I'm only sharing what I've discovered. Childish behaviour will be ignored.
2006-04-24, 11:58
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6 posts

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Apr 2006
Funny guys.
2006-04-24, 14:36
News Writer
646 posts

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Mar 2006
Def you need to up your latest demos (and of course everyone else who has made improvements!)
2006-04-24, 19:35
Member
35 posts

Registered:
Mar 2006
sfirra wrote:
Some of them can't accept the three best shafters in the whole world are from Brasil.

Playing against a bot that does the exact same thing every time and moves in the same way makes you the best aimer in QW?

Makes sense I presume. If you practice one thing thats the same over and over and over again of course you will get better at that.. playing against opponents that can move affects your aim, obviously.

Now please stop the arrogant comments, its supposed to be a bit of fun, not something to say: 'OMGZ BRAZIL OWNS YOU AT AIM'
<@Meez> #mor @ quakenet.
2006-04-24, 21:50
Member
248 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
yea, since brazil will own out buts of this summer in soccer, cant then let someone else be the best shafters!?
2006-04-24, 22:21
Member
6 posts

Registered:
Apr 2006
meez,

I think it's the most fair way to judge the lg-aim. So, what's the meaning of this compo? One map, where everyone can pratice and play in the same conditions.

And I'm sorry about the arrogance, but some guys have to think twice before mentioning names, countries, and accusing people of cheating.

You're absolutely right, its supposed to be a bit of fun, so let's make it.
2006-04-25, 00:05
Member
11 posts

Registered:
Apr 2006
this 58/179 demo i posted in lgc it is with highpriority 0 and yield 0.
2006-04-25, 19:25
Member
518 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
where is the rl competition, lets see who has the best rl.

just load lgc.cfg

type no_lg
skillup till it has skill 15
ready


After 2 tries i had 70-58 with 28 vs 18 rl
2006-04-25, 19:42
Member
518 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
update:

bot skill 20

frags: 83 vs 55

rl hits: 28 vs 12
2006-04-26, 22:35
News Writer
646 posts

Registered:
Mar 2006
Someone was thinking about this, (manslay?) but I thought endif, etc are better measures of RL skill. I could be wrong! I will think about including this mode in the new LGC... I really need to get around to writing it.
2006-04-26, 22:55
Member
2259 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
endif would be superb
2006-04-27, 07:19
Member
518 posts

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Jan 2006
nah not another endif tourney, thats just spawnraping use povdmm4 !
2006-04-27, 12:58
Member
1754 posts

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Jan 2006
plz, no dmm4 tourneys
more duel
2006-04-27, 13:11
Member
447 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
You don't have to participate.

END TOURNEY PLZ?!?
Teamplay is nothing. Aim is everything. OBEY YOUR AIM

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/9017/end2ub.jpg
2006-04-27, 13:21
Member
518 posts

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Jan 2006
don't think bots can play on end, they will be in lava only :S
2006-04-27, 14:29
Administrator
1247 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
ehhe true mur

me and murdoc are fans of rl fights on povdmm4 vs bots. i have discussed with him some things and

scorings:
since the bot spawns with 666, the damage frags arent accurate. same thing happens with lg, if u hit the bot while he has 666, damage frags will increase unfairly. on the other hand, damage given increases always at the same rate

so, for scorings the best thing would be to get a formula where the damage given and the rl hits (and damage took?) are key.
also i think the shotguns could be allowed for a somewhatcompetition nice combos

btw, yesterday i tryed and my best was: 7290 damage given + 20ish rl hits
never argue with an idiot. they'll bring you back to their level and then beat you with experience.
2006-04-27, 18:54
Member
64 posts

Registered:
Mar 2006
I don't think endif shows true rl aim. You dont have players spawn above you on regular maps, and you dont have maps wth high ceilings. Povdmm4 is better but end.bsp is the best for rl aim imo, but with a bot it wouldnt work too well, they'd hop around in the lava. So go for povdmm4 or something.
2006-04-27, 18:57
Member
792 posts

Registered:
Jan 1970
imo is amphi, where you dont have a lot of lava trouble..
2006-04-27, 21:07
Member
2259 posts

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Jan 2006
dm2dmm4 with only rl would be nice
2006-04-27, 22:33
Member
447 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
We could get racersnigeln to hop around on end with no button bound to +rl. Kind of a "shoot the turkey" game. Only here the turkey moves faster than a speeding bullet. :|
Teamplay is nothing. Aim is everything. OBEY YOUR AIM

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/9017/end2ub.jpg
2006-04-27, 22:36
Moderator
383 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
dm2dmm4 ownz
With best wishes, B1aze.
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