User panel stuff on forum
  43 posts on 2 pages  First page12Last page
Server Talk
2011-03-02, 16:15
Member
284 posts

Registered:
Oct 2006
qqshka wrote:
I don't get the table.

Regarding noticeability of been shafted. Server apply lg damage each 100 ms (one cell, 30 damage, as you know). When damage applied you will notice it with nearest packet which you receive from the server, that mean with ping 12ms you notice damage in 12ms at worst case(with zero pl ofc). You notice it with decreased health/armor, with knock back, with the blood and lg bolt. Blood and bolt kinda fucked up against high pingers BUT health/armor does not affected, so you MUST notice it pretty the same (yet I think alot of ppl also rely on blood and bolt in his face but it does not help when one ambushing you from behind). Yet again, I just tried to clarify that server does not apply few cells from HPW in one server frame, rules are the same for HPW, one cell in 100ms, and you notice it quite the same besides blood and bolt.

Yeah I never meant to sound like hpw lg was somehow more damaging. The table is just to show what the reality is from each players pov in that situation. In terms of packets coming in, my client would be able to detect the first hit just as the second one is fired at the attackers end. But then you gotta take other delays into account and that's why I attribute 3 shots unnoticed / unreacted. Even with 12ms vs 12ms, the first shot is pretty much free, even the second one to a degree. These effects are also affected by other things going on at the same time. This is just to clarify why you can have situations where by the time you react, you've already been severely damaged and in a perfect antilag lg vs 100h situation, you might not even notice the lg before you are dead, only seeing it from your death view. Most of the time, people don't lg 100%, but the way lg attacks and ambushes are used on dm3, it is much more likely to have very very high lg%. And like I pointed out before, the margins are small even with 12ms vs 12ms, it becomes razor thin vs antilag lg.
2011-03-02, 23:48
Member
405 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
I give up in attempt to understand you
<3
2011-03-03, 09:11
News Writer
283 posts

Registered:
Jan 2007
This is weird because I thought it was obvious what niomic is trying to say (at least in the earlier posts)... so to blAze and Rikoll, maybe this example will help:

Imagine a mexican standoff, two players in QW facing each other, both standing still with LG primed and ready to fire. If you get shot, you strafe out of the way and assume the guy doesn't adjust his aim at all.
12ms guy shafting you = ~150ms of shaft hits you (whatever your reaction time + time it takes for player model to move out of line of fire is).
NO ANTILAG 150ms guy shafting you = ~150ms of shaft hits you, same as above.
ANTILAG 150ms guy shafting you = ~150ms + 150ms of shaft hits you (300ms), as by the time you feel/see the shaft, he's already been hitting you for 150ms.

Simples?

And as niomic said:
niomic wrote:
At the end of this discussion, it is entirely possible that I'll just have to accept that while sqz enjoys certain advantages, he is still at a disadvantage in many other things due to ping and that that is equal / fair enough to enable him and others to play with us (which is a high priority for me).
2011-03-03, 13:38
Member
284 posts

Registered:
Oct 2006
Darff wrote:
This is weird because I thought it was obvious what niomic is trying to say (at least in the earlier posts)... so to blAze and Rikoll, maybe this example will help:

Imagine a mexican standoff, two players in QW facing each other, both standing still with LG primed and ready to fire. If you get shot, you strafe out of the way and assume the guy doesn't adjust his aim at all.
12ms guy shafting you = ~150ms of shaft hits you (whatever your reaction time + time it takes for player model to move out of line of fire is).
NO ANTILAG 150ms guy shafting you = ~150ms of shaft hits you, same as above.
ANTILAG 150ms guy shafting you = ~150ms + 150ms of shaft hits you (300ms), as by the time you feel/see the shaft, he's already been hitting you for 150ms.

Simples?

And as niomic said:
niomic wrote:
At the end of this discussion, it is entirely possible that I'll just have to accept that while sqz enjoys certain advantages, he is still at a disadvantage in many other things due to ping and that that is equal / fair enough to enable him and others to play with us (which is a high priority for me).


Except you made the same mistake as I did at first. 150ms is round-trip and the packet doesn't need to make a round-trip, one way is enough. So ~75ms for the 150ms player. Otherwise, QFT.

I don't know why it's hard to fathom that we are not eliminating latency, because that is practically impossible. We are simply moving it away from the player that is doing the shooting, so that they can aim as well as they can in ~realtime and get their hits based on that, not on their aim + 75ms+ changes at the other end etc.
2011-03-03, 14:38
Member
462 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
Darff wrote:
This is weird because I thought it was obvious what niomic is trying to say (at least in the earlier posts)... so to blAze and Rikoll, maybe this example will help:

Imagine a mexican standoff, two players in QW facing each other, both standing still with LG primed and ready to fire. If you get shot, you strafe out of the way and assume the guy doesn't adjust his aim at all.
12ms guy shafting you = ~150ms of shaft hits you (whatever your reaction time + time it takes for player model to move out of line of fire is).
NO ANTILAG 150ms guy shafting you = ~150ms of shaft hits you, same as above.
ANTILAG 150ms guy shafting you = ~150ms + 150ms of shaft hits you (300ms), as by the time you feel/see the shaft, he's already been hitting you for 150ms.

Simples?

The guy with no lag can start shooting 150ms faster so the antilagged guy could be dead at the server before he can even try to start shooting.
2011-03-03, 14:48
Member
462 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
niomic wrote:
I don't know why it's hard to fathom that we are not eliminating latency, because that is practically impossible. We are simply moving it away from the player that is doing the shooting, so that they can aim as well as they can in ~realtime and get their hits based on that, not on their aim + 75ms+ changes at the other end etc.

Didn't realize it's hard to fathom. However the implications of doing this seem to remain somewhat unclear.
2011-03-03, 17:59
Member
284 posts

Registered:
Oct 2006
blAze wrote:
niomic wrote:
I don't know why it's hard to fathom that we are not eliminating latency, because that is practically impossible. We are simply moving it away from the player that is doing the shooting, so that they can aim as well as they can in ~realtime and get their hits based on that, not on their aim + 75ms+ changes at the other end etc.

Didn't realize it's hard to fathom. However the implications of doing this seem to remain somewhat unclear.

I was talking about specific situations which seem to be quite effective and often used on dm3 4on4. Ambushes and blitzkrieg with lg to the side or back of an opponent. It is in these situations where the antilag lg's moved latency is making it even harder for the victim to survive / counter-attack.
2011-03-03, 21:55
Member
462 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
Typically people don't really stand still waiting to be ambushed but are in continuous movement. Sure you could stop for a second and then move again. I'm not saying that situations like that can't happen, but from my experience they are very rare. There is basically like one guy in the scene playing with 130ms, so you'd have to be ambushed by him, in just the right conditions etc. On the plus side everyone who is not playing with 12ms is now able to play in much more fair conditions.
2011-03-03, 22:48
Member
284 posts

Registered:
Oct 2006
blAze wrote:
Typically people don't really stand still waiting to be ambushed but are in continuous movement. Sure you could stop for a second and then move again. I'm not saying that situations like that can't happen, but from my experience they are very rare. There is basically like one guy in the scene playing with 130ms, so you'd have to be ambushed by him, in just the right conditions etc. On the plus side everyone who is not playing with 12ms is now able to play in much more fair conditions.

Well, he is exactly the guy that does it and ofc he should If you look at the table, 1 second is a long time in this scenario. In under half a second the extra gain from antilag lg will be used. And even if you're moving, you can be backstabbed and sidestabbed, so being stationary is not always a requirement, but it made it easier for me to explain what is happening.
2011-03-03, 23:35
Member
382 posts

Registered:
Apr 2006
In these scenarios, a 130ms player gets an average of 1 extra cell in cases where he hits all cells against an unaware opponent whose resultant reaction would otherwise cause him to miss, assuming the attacker does not die in the 100ms before the server applies the damage. He also gets an extra cell in cases where the damage specifically from his LG would otherwise have pushed the opponent out of the beam; eg. knocking them behind the ledge on povdmm4 as shown in bigfoot's example demo.
2011-03-04, 08:22
News Writer
283 posts

Registered:
Jan 2007
blAze the example wasn't meant as a who-would-win-this-battle thing, I was just trying to illustrate the slight advantage the lagged player has. In battles this happens all the time - you are strafing, an NME LG locks onto you, and you react and change direction - against a higher pinged opponent, you take extra damage from their shaft for the (theirping / 2) amount of time. There are disadvantages to having a high ping too, don't get me wrong, I'm well in favour of antilag.

I fairly often play 1on1 against an old clanmate of mine who has gone to live in Australia - the best server we've found is tastyspleen.net:27501 (180 ping for me, 240 for him, I use cl_delay_packet to even it out), and I find shafting much easier on this ping. If he comes flying out of dm4 100h, I just have to point, click and drag to deal him 120+ damage, whereas if I was on 12ms I would have to react & adjust for the LG beam affecting his speed/position. This effect makes a difference everywhere as you just have to aim at their hitbox and dish out the cells without adjusting for the kickback.
2011-08-26, 12:50
Member
100 posts

Registered:
Mar 2008
hey, i joined to an antilag server, and i wanted to disable it( my opponent had 12 ms, and i dont need/like it) but it seems the "antilag" command is not working. Is there a new way to disable it or what? it was on foppa i guess.
2011-08-27, 06:52
Moderator
1329 posts

Registered:
Apr 2006
Maybe it's time to update the servers then, the toggle has been around since february this year...
Servers: Troopers
  43 posts on 2 pages  First page12Last page