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General Discussion
2010-04-28, 09:53
News Writer
1267 posts

Registered:
Jun 2007
#25
I thought they hadnt played yet? Or was it earlier in the tournament? Or what are you talking about? (im confused)
Chosen
2010-04-28, 09:55
Administrator
1847 posts

Registered:
Feb 2006
blAze wrote:
How could people suddenly know that someone has enabled this? It doesn't make any sense. The servers even say antilag off and command locked.

You notice while playing with people who lag - Also it's not up to me to announce such things, it's up to the server admin and the mod devs if they change defaults.

I would have announced it had we added it on foppa, but we didn't, even when asked.
2010-04-28, 09:59
Member
462 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
Zalon wrote:
Also it's not up to me to announce such things, it's up to the server admin and the mod devs if they change defaults.

I would have announced it had we added it on foppa, but we didn't, even when asked.

I think it's up to any honest player to report ongoing cheating if they notice it. Respect to ParadokS for bringing this up instead of trying to take advantage of it in the EQL playoffs.
2010-04-28, 10:02
Administrator
1847 posts

Registered:
Feb 2006
As I said, I thought people knew, also after the trouble I got into in the past regarding this antilag feature, I didn't want to be the one to raise his voice on this subject again. One would also expect server admins and ktx devs to announce it.

Regarding cheating, we play all our games on foppa, even tho we have an American on the team. If we play anywhere else, it's by request from our opponents.
2010-04-28, 10:05
Member
693 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
QW.nu forum shows Zalon's above post #34 at 11:02, but my computer is showing 10:54. There is antilag on the forums!!!
2010-04-28, 10:07
Administrator
1847 posts

Registered:
Feb 2006
gaz, keep quiet, I'm trying to keep it a secret!
2010-04-28, 10:09
Member
462 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
Zalon wrote:
One would also expect server admins and ktx devs to announce it.

Clearly they didn't, yet you did nothing...
2010-04-28, 10:10
Administrator
1847 posts

Registered:
Feb 2006
blAze wrote:
Clearly they didn't, yet you did nothing...

It's not like I've known since December, blame Medar, he has known longer that me.

Or blame the Russians who knew, or the poles, or yourself for not reading my forum post 1 month ago.
2010-04-28, 10:15
Member
462 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
Zalon wrote:
blAze wrote:
Clearly they didn't, yet you did nothing...

It's not like I've known since December, blame Medar, he has known longer that me.

Or blame the Russians who knew, or the poles, or yourself for not reading my forum post 1 month ago.

I blame anyone who sees a crime happen and doesn't report it. They are just as guilty as the criminal. "Courage is knowing what's right, and doing it"
2010-04-28, 10:16
Member
23 posts

Registered:
Apr 2010
Hooraytio wrote:
#25
I thought they hadnt played yet? Or was it earlier in the tournament? Or what are you talking about? (im confused)

OT: BuLaT and avenger played ownage yesterday (2010-04-27), the results should be posted on the ownage website soon I guess.
2010-04-28, 10:17
News Writer
1267 posts

Registered:
Jun 2007
Afaik noone in Chosen knew about this and we have used 60ms flamer in some games. Dunno if this made him hit better but as of now i cant recall the exact servers we played on while having flamer in the lineup... Still we lost 0-3 vs PC in the quartefinal and both teams had 1 guy each with high ping and PC had one more with a little better ping but still kinda bad.

I think all changes should be reported so that noone can pop out after 3 months and say "noone noticed!"
Chosen
2010-04-28, 10:23
Administrator
1847 posts

Registered:
Feb 2006
blAze wrote:
I blame anyone who sees a crime happen and doesn't report it.

If you don't want to play with untested features, don't play on servers that use svn builds of ktx/mvdsv. That being all servers that Renzo admin.

It's not like this is the first thing to be enabled without any announcement.
2010-04-28, 10:26
Member
247 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
3TK had at least two 52/65ms players in each game during the EQL11 games. we've played all our games on either Keksfabrik (DE) or XS4ALL (NL).....hence antilag was off.
2010-04-28, 10:30
Member
462 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
Zalon wrote:
If you don't want to play with untested features, don't play on servers that use svn builds of ktx/mvdsv. That being all servers that Renzo admin.
It's not like this is the first thing to be enabled without any announcement.

Clearly I have been naive thinking that cheating is not a problem in an old game like this. I think we could use a list of clean servers that have no connection to these cheaters. Also I guess we need more servers since they have infiltrated so many of them.
2010-04-28, 10:32
Administrator
1847 posts

Registered:
Feb 2006
Also, while blaming me, you keep ignoring the fact that I did mention this almost a month ago. I also find it very strange that you didn't know about this, when your teammate Milton did.
2010-04-28, 10:34
Member
55 posts

Registered:
Jan 2009
Indeed something strange has been going on with the LG lately. Simply being unable to beat 50ms player on povdmm4 with 25ms (even if its bulat). Getting hit by bottish shaft on dmm3 maps wondering "when did this guy learn how to shaft like this". If only had I known that the way to play this game now is cl_fakeshaft 1 with aiming stricly with the crosshair whatever the situation.
It did cross my mind every now and then, maybe it's antilag or something, but the countdown stated "antilag: off". I really didn't believe the admins and developers would force it on, then lie about it.
With pings 39ms and higher, antilag makes all the difference in the world how or when to use your LG, but theres another thread for all that..
I wonder how many games there has been in EQL/ownage with only other side knowing this was being enabled.
Why lie about it in the countdown info in the first place? I really don't see what good is this going to do for this game, bring in new players? I seriosuly doubt it.
I would imagine not a lot of the few present players like this kind of behaviour from the admins/developers. Forcing on features that have previously caused serious debate, lie about it in the countdown info and tell some "selected" individuals that this thing has been on since last december.
2010-04-28, 10:39
Member
462 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
Zalon wrote:
Also, while blaming me, you keep ignoring the fact that I did mention this almost a month ago. I also find it very strange that you didn't know about this, when your teammate Milton did.

Well if you did mention it, good. Unfortunately seems like me and many others have missed it. I'm also surprised if Milton knew and said nothing.
2010-04-28, 10:48
Moderator
1329 posts

Registered:
Apr 2006
I'm in the middle of finishing my last studies (PHP/Java stuff) so I'll make this short version.

Yep, the serverside "antilag" feature was added to MVDSV back in the december. I enabled it on HALF of the server ports I run, so that there would cerrtainly be difference between the servers, and people would come to talk to us about its functionality or bugs. As far as I can remember, only one person came to report bugs (thanks en_karl).

There was some EQL final during that time, antilag was disabled for that particular match. I told about this to johnny_cz so you can confirm it from him. Not that it matters since other games have been played ever since.

About a month ago I got request to enable antilag on more servers, so I enabled it on the rest I have running. I have told some people about the feature, but not to all. Not only that, I've asked them to test the feature by playing on those servers and report any possible bugs/features/whatever to us, the MVDSV team so we can fix any problems if there are any. I also planned on doing some announcement but what do you know, I have more important things to do (like finishing my studies at last) and I haven't had the time to even think about QW, other than playing few rounds seldomly.


Why do it like this? It's simple. You do NOT get enough practical experience to and from players. Just look at how it turned last time, people were saying IT IS SHIT HORRIBLE BLA BLA BLA without even testing it at all. Now you have tested it for more than 5 months. Maybe bring up some actual data with demos/whatever that can prove something is wrong, and get the stuff fixed.

Ah, and no. The feature is NOT enabled by default, so the people running MVDSV have to enable it themselves to make it work, so no worries there.
Servers: Troopers
2010-04-28, 10:50
Member
130 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
AFAIK pretty much no-one but Renzo knew about it for the first 3-4 months. In the last month or two an increasingly large amount people have become aware of it (me included).

My personal excuse for not telling is that I wanted Renzo accept my patch, not piss him off (or make him angry to the person who told me about antilag)
Also the fact it had been out for a long time before I found out and Renzo said he was going to write a post about it soon.

That being said, after the fact I do agree that I should have done something about it. So sorry about that.
2010-04-28, 10:56
Moderator
1329 posts

Registered:
Apr 2006
Medar wrote:
AFAIK pretty much no-one but Renzo knew about it for the first 3-4 months. In the last month or two an increasingly large amount people have become aware of it (me included).

More than 10 people knew about it, half of them were developers and the rest were players.

Medar wrote:
My personal excuse for not telling is that I wanted Renzo accept my patch, not piss him off (or make him angry to the person who told me about antilag)
Also the fact it had been out for a long time before I found out and Renzo said he was going to write a post about it soon.

That being said, after the fact I do agree that I should have done something about it. So sorry about that.

The antilag was never a secret, just not announced publicly to get the test results needed. If you figured out it was there, you could tell more people and nothing would stop you.

Unfortunately I haven't had the time to check your patch still, and Qqshka is busy doing his program for the job he applied to.
Servers: Troopers
2010-04-28, 10:58
Member
163 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
I don't like this. Sometimes I play via a router in the UK to get my ping to 90ish just to get some challenge. With this antilag feature activated I won't get the challenge I wish for any more. I'm a sad panda.
http://www.aimbot.se/pic/dopefish_anim.gif
2010-04-28, 11:01
Member
462 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
Renzo wrote:
About a month ago I got request to enable antilag on more servers

Who was the cheater requesting for it? Would be interesting to know.
2010-04-28, 11:17
Member
397 posts

Registered:
Feb 2006
Haha just when I unfortunately thought most of the drama we have seen lately had died out, we get this!! Great stuff, keep it going

Ps. blAze, why are you so filled with hate? Try to bring some more love into the world! <3
2010-04-28, 11:20
Member
462 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
Dishonest cheaters deserve all the hate they get. They ruin the game for us honest players.
2010-04-28, 11:25
Member
129 posts

Registered:
Mar 2007
Calling anyone who is interested in this feature a 'cheater' is hardly constructive.
2010-04-28, 11:27
Moderator
1329 posts

Registered:
Apr 2006
Let's not make a fuss about it, ok?

Ring any bells? Maybe check you stance on your own "honesty" for a change.
Servers: Troopers
2010-04-28, 11:28
Member
693 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
blAze, I'm unclear as to why this feature is 'cheating'. It is not like an aimbot. An aimbot replaces the human input of aiming and automates it for you. My understanding of anti-lag is limited, but my reading of it is that it works by reducing the effects of lag for higher pinging players. Therefore, all it does it make a player who has a good aim with low ping able to use that good aim on a higher ping. Bad players on low ping will not suddenly become the next Zero, Insane, etc because of this feature.

That said, I do agree that it is a bit sneaky to enable it on all of the servers without proper consultation and so on.
2010-04-28, 11:42
Member
462 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
It's cheating to use this feature to your tactical advantage. Knowing about it when your opponents don't. It's also cheating if you can get shot at coordinates where you aren't, just because at some point in time, you were there. It's cheating, because it makes hitting easier.
2010-04-28, 11:44
Member
397 posts

Registered:
Feb 2006
Btw, I guess this explains Lacsaps accusations of me using aimbot :-)
2010-04-28, 11:51
Member
130 posts

Registered:
Jan 2006
blAze wrote:
It's cheating to use this feature to your tactical advantage. Knowing about it when your opponents don't.

This is true, but considering how trivially easy it would be to cheat in QuakeWorld in multiple different ways it would be really surprising if anyone had that at the top of their mind when it comes to antilag.

blAze wrote:
It's also cheating if you can get shot at coordinates where you aren't, just because at some point in time, you were there.

Cheating is getting an unfair advantage over your opponent. Antilag will not give you that when all players are aware of it's existence.

As for this being a drawback of the antilag feature, I've already commented that on the other thread.
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