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General Discussion
2010-05-05, 08:53
Member
459 posts

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Mar 2008
Don't think this is called out for a vote.. The feature is there, and server admins who like the feature will continue to use it on their servers, the ones who don't wont use it. Then in tourneys it is up to the tourney admins if they want this feature to take a part of their tourney or not. It is not like a democracy is really needed when it is clear who owns / rents a server and runs it..

Think I speak for many when a toggle function for antilag without the need of rcon would be very welcome though.
2010-05-05, 09:04
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1433 posts

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Jan 2006
But a consensus would still be bether, in a tournament when finding a common server with lowest ping I don't want antilag factor to get in the way (enemy wants antilag on, I don't, what do we do? uh uh).

cl_fakeshaft 2 was commited by Medar few days ago but it affects your own shaft only. The other thing would have to be implemented server-side I guess.
2010-05-05, 10:19
Member
59 posts

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Mar 2010
Toggleable antilag would halve the community I think. That would be really annoying to be used to antilag and then it's voted out in some other server you join. Lots of unnecessary whine would be in every prewar aswell.

Either disable it forever or enable in all servers imo.
2010-05-05, 11:00
Moderator
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Apr 2006
Rikoll wrote:
Don't think this is called out for a vote.. The feature is there, and server admins who like the feature will continue to use it on their servers, the ones who don't wont use it. Then in tourneys it is up to the tourney admins if they want this feature to take a part of their tourney or not.

It's not that simple. If leagues don't want to allow this, then it's obvious that at least some of the servers (whoever runs them) should be in "normal" state so that league games could be played on them. However, I know I want to play on antilag server if I have ping like 38ms, and I don't have to care if the other guys have 13ms or so, it's just much more enjoyable like that, therefore I would leave some servers with it enabled.

rlx wrote:
Toggleable antilag would halve the community I think. That would be really annoying to be used to antilag and then it's voted out in some other server you join. Lots of unnecessary whine would be in every prewar aswell.

Either disable it forever or enable in all servers imo.

I agree, and that's the view of Qqshka and Medar too.
Servers: Troopers
2010-05-05, 11:16
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Mar 2008
Renzo wrote:
It's not that simple. If leagues don't want to allow this, then it's obvious that at least some of the servers (whoever runs them) should be in "normal" state so that league games could be played on them. However, I know I want to play on antilag server if I have ping like 38ms, and I don't have to care if the other guys have 13ms or so, it's just much more enjoyable like that, therefore I would leave some servers with it enabled.

It is that simple. My reply was to the suggestion of making a poll out of this. Most reasonable server admins would do what you describes to adjust to upcoming tourneys, however, without bothering to make a poll out of it.

edit: I see the point of its potential to split the community if its toggleable, though. Maybe have to agree on it being lockede. Hopefully the next tourney coming up will set a good standard towards the rules concerning this :-)
2010-05-05, 17:19
Member
792 posts

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Feb 2006
if i was to introduce a feature that is controversial enough to split a community in half and i don't want to make it optional i'd think twice about introducing it at all. that's just me i guess.
2010-05-05, 18:42
Member
368 posts

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Dec 2006
I think IF it can be tested enough to show that it's working OK then it should be enabled on all servers. The one problem of course being that you are then reliant on server admins updating their servers, but I guess that applies nowadays anyway (servers running old mod versions etc). The majority of clan games get played on servers we have decent access to but there are a lot of servers in the 'outer reaches' which maybe won't get updated so quickly (nl/de etc).

Would be nice to see some EU teams playing vs NA (or even .br!) teams in UK or east coast of America with antilag. qw.quakephil.com:28000+ has the old version of antliag, guess we can get it updated, ping to there is reasonable for me (82ms). Still not fair conditions by any means, lagging rockets, problems with teleporters etc but would make it at least more bearable than usual for lg/sg etc.
2010-05-05, 22:01
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Jan 2007
JohnNy_cz wrote:
cl_fakeshaft 2 was commited by Medar few days ago but it affects your own shaft only. The other thing would have to be implemented server-side I guess.

What does the currently committed cl_fakeshaft 2 code do?
2010-05-05, 22:47
Member
357 posts

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Nov 2008
Darff: I think it will render the shaft beam exactly where it is hitting. Is like antilag 0 taking care of antilag, so if you have 30ms, and antilag is on, it will show you a 12ms shaft beam as far as i understood.
"the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear"
2010-05-07, 14:24
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131 posts

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Dec 2008
I've tried cl_fakeshaft 2. It seems to be adequate replacement for cl_fakeshaft 0 without antilag.
It would be nice to change this setting automatically ( 0 -> 2) depending on server settings.
2010-05-07, 14:28
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357 posts

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Nov 2008
I can't seem to find ezquake with cl_fakeshaft 2 O.o
"the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear"
2010-05-07, 14:59
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Jan 2006
here it is http://ezquake.sourceforge.net/nightly/ezquake-gl.zip
2010-05-07, 16:57
Member
357 posts

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Nov 2008
Thanks, it looks exactly like q3. Meh
"the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear"
2010-05-07, 17:44
Member
382 posts

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Apr 2006
What exactly does that mean?
2010-05-07, 18:06
Member
59 posts

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Mar 2010
time:

"So with cl_fakeshaft 2 and cl_fakeshaft_extra_updates 0 you should get the same experience with higher pings that you get with cl_fakeshaft 0 on 13 ms."

use cl_fakeshaft_extra_updates 0 too.. with 1 its like fake 90%

no idea what you mean with q3 tho :>
2010-05-07, 21:37
Administrator
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Jan 2006
time doesnt make sense in his speech in this thread. ive tested both antilag approaches and the latest is better. it isnt perfect, but its advantages are far more than the disadvantages. imo, current antilag is good enough to be default. word from a ~70ms player

new (server) antilag > no antilag > "old" (client) antilag
never argue with an idiot. they'll bring you back to their level and then beat you with experience.
2010-05-07, 22:58
Member
370 posts

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Mar 2008
I can't wait to try this on my NA servers once they are up...
2010-05-08, 03:31
Member
357 posts

Registered:
Nov 2008
Stev: Means that qw original shaft still in the screen (for 10ms iirc) then it changes position, etc etc. Q3 shaft is smooth at all. I can make a video or something, but i think is pretty clear.

Rlx: Yeah with cl_fakeshaft_extra_updates 0 i get the old fakeshaft instead of q3 fakeshaft.

Mushi: As long as i'm a qw player, i'm free to talk and point my opinions. Maybe i'm not very clear, but you know, in Spain they don't teach us (proper) English in the school, i had to learn with internet (Look af this if you don't belive me --> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZBuKZLyqJ8g&feature=related )
And, in my opinion, i don't care if this feature is added or not but as long as we can turn it off. But forcing us to play with that is just not so fairbecause i actually enjoy playing with high-ish ping in pov. At first i was happy with antilag because i had good scores easily, now i want a challenge, it's more fun for me to predict players rather than aiming straight in the cross. As someone said: "Antilag disables the addictive part of shafting". Word from a 50 to 90ms player.
"the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear"
2010-05-08, 10:33
Administrator
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Apr 2006
mushi: Ofc you are positive about it, and your comment about having 70ms; it's your opponent that get the disadvantage of your high ping, not you, so fail on that argument.
2010-05-08, 10:53
Member
382 posts

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Apr 2006
Except this entire thread, and Medar's previous blog, has been showing how there is no practical disadvantage for anyone but the guy on high ping, unless you are dealing with incredibly large numbers.
2010-05-08, 17:34
Member
357 posts

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Nov 2008
I'm going a bit offtopic, but just wondering if you alredy know about fakeshaft 2 + speccing which is kinda bugged.. Don't know if you alredy know, and don't know where to report bug either.
"the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear"
2010-05-08, 18:13
Member
130 posts

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Jan 2006
time! wrote:
I'm going a bit offtopic, but just wondering if you alredy know about fakeshaft 2 + speccing which is kinda bugged.. Don't know if you alredy know, and don't know where to report bug either.

Yep, someone mentioned it. I'll try to remember and fix it soon.

Also note that cl_fakeshaft 2 is not meant to be accurate presentation where the bolt hit or anything like that. It's just meant to simulate the cl_fakeshaft 0 with any ping.
2010-05-08, 18:24
Member
35 posts

Registered:
May 2009
To me it feels like using antilag is nothing like shafting on 12 ms, it is easier; It's like you only have to aim a "quake meter" away from the enemy at all times no matter how fast they fly across the map. Perhaps that isn't true, but it does seem like so much of the skill/prediction required has been removed or at least toned down. I notice this especially when airshafting.

Either way, one of the most addictive things about this game when i started was the lagged shaft beam, it was so hard to master and while i was initially excited about this feature due to my kenya pings, now it just feels like it's spoiling the gameplay. Does anyone else feel this way? :/
2010-05-08, 18:30
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Jan 2009
Yes. 13 years of practice how to use the shaft with different pings down the drain.
2010-05-08, 18:46
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130 posts

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Jan 2006
angryfish wrote:
To me it feels like using antilag is nothing like shafting on 12 ms, it is easier; It's like you only have to aim a "quake meter" away from the enemy at all times no matter how fast they fly across the map. Perhaps that isn't true, but it does seem like so much of the skill/prediction required has been removed or at least toned down. I notice this especially when airshafting.

The old antilag implementation had this problem. So make sure you are playing an a server that has the new fixes.

With the "new" patch aiming is exactly like it has always been with 12 ms.
2010-05-08, 19:00
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Apr 2006
12 years of being at a horrific disadvantage down the drain. Shucks.
2010-05-08, 19:03
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Nov 2008
Stev: Some people actually like challenges
"the quieter you become, the more you are able to hear"
2010-05-08, 19:14
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298 posts

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Sep 2006
Well, for "me, myself and I" this whole antifag concept is quite alarming. The shafting skill has been mastered for years/months by us and it was really rewarding and always fun to feel it in the game. Now it seems that nobody cares for that anymore. I know we want some fresh blood and stuff, but c'mon? Do we really need to tweak the game into this direction? QW has always been the hardest to master, the hard-core game of all FPS-es I guess. have you ever wondered that you just may throw the baby out with the water? It may kill the game in future I reckon - even now the majority of players try to do anything to get LG, how will it be after the antifag has been implemented? Shaft-festo all the way? And you may have probably seen last night's duels between Locke and Bulat. Maybe you should consider this idea once again, admins and developers?
2010-05-08, 19:25
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188 posts

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Jan 2007
Medar wrote:
With the "new" patch aiming is exactly like it has always been with 12 ms.

Before I start wasting my time on further explanations: Are you intentionally lying or are you just being ignorant?
2010-05-08, 19:31
Member
130 posts

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Jan 2006
bigfoot wrote:
Medar wrote:
With the "new" patch aiming is exactly like it has always been with 12 ms.

Before I start wasting my time on further explanations: Are you intentionally lying or are you just being ignorant?

Antilag with any ping and non-antilagged 13 ms, in both cases you aim exactly at the enemy you see on your screen (minus the prediction errors). That's what I tried to say.
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