Oh no not this again!

Yes i'm going to give this another try. Or just something to think about.
This is mostly something I've come to think about since I've been playing some QL. Allthough they do stick to some old duel maps they (ID) also introduce new ones and they are and will be forced into tournaments and I do think this will be something that could keep QL alive for a long time.
I'm a total SC noob, but from what i've heard they change the mappool every year by making new maps. This happens because there is lots of $$$ involved and aslong as the organisers of these tournaments force new maps on everyone people will play them. Well since this game isn't about $$$ there will be no forcing, but I do think new maps are refreshing and good and that's something i've only recently agreed on as I was always against it.

My main issue is mostly to get rid of crap maps. It's something that will never happen, but I really think maps like dm4 and dm2 are lousy maps. And that's not because I suck at them, because I also suck at Aerowalk, but it's easy to see it's a good map.

-dm2. Really this map is too well suited for running away. There ain't a single recent demo of dm2 that I enjoy. Sure if both players want to fight it can be enjoyable, but if it's being played true tournament style it's just horrifying. Why can't we come up with something better? Is there really nothing better then dm2 to play duels on? Do people reallly enjoy this map? I know I did, but since I really started thinking about the map it's just crap. I mean really it's just not suited for a duel.

-dm4. I won't deny it. I suck big time on this map, but I doubt that's the reason why I think this map is uttercrap. Allthough I do think some div0 games are kinda good on this map. Specially on the prediction and timing part are just incredible, but the map is about stading high in mid room and spamming all the exits. And all the exits are narrow as hell......
The spawns are every more horrific. Stand in mid room and kill all newly spawns except when newly spawned is in the lead. Then the newly spawned can play hide and seek in the hallways luring the player in control hoping he gets a nice spawn once he gets killed with the player in control outside the bigroom. Or he gets lucky and outmanouvers the player in control and gets a weapon and armor.
Vice versa when the player in control is in the lead he can just stay in bigroom and wait for the newly spawned player to show his face. A good dm4 player will rarely make the mistake of letting the newly spawned player get a weapon/armor. So just hope for a ra spawn and make the best of it.
Can't we just play skull instead or what? Look i'm also crap on that map so its not that I hope to rape on there, but it plays a lot better. Not 6 spawnspots in hopeless positions.

Now I haven't thought of alternatives really, but I mentioned skull before as an alternative to a map like dm4 for example. Not sure, but I think it's allready quite an popular map.

Some critcs on ztndm3. The spawns... If the last killer is in a good position near the t-crossing he can rake up too many easy spawnfrags which is unneccasary. I mean atleast remove 1 spawn in the mega room. That leaves besides the lg and other megaroom spawn the newly spawned player always in a position not to get spawnfragged. It still keeps him in a vulnerable position, but that's always in qw when you die. Really if it was possible to remove just one megaroom spawn things would allready be a lot better. The gameplay of ztn is fine. You can cs and +forward and plenty of options to catch your opponent. It's also a pretty good map for runners, but there are a lot more options to catch your opponent compared to dm2.

The more frustating moments a map can offer the worse the map gets. And I'm saying this as a player and spectator.

The 4n4 tb3 maps are imo all 3 good maps who all offer a completely different game which is good, but adding something fresh wouldn't hurt. I'm also short on time regarding learning new maps, but sometimes this community is a bit too conservative. I hope Steves promoting cmt1b helped a bit for next 4n4 league, allthough my yearning for new maps regarding 4n4 is a lot less then 1n1.

Most of all get rid of dm2 for 1n1. It's just not a 1n1 map... really.. argh! I wished I was able to make a website so I would start a 1n1 league

I'm not sure what I want to achieve with this actually, since I think this scene is too old and too small for new things. (incl. me)

Nothing offers me more frustration than ZTN. Ban ZTN!!!

Well I think this is a good initiative.
"allthough my yearning for new maps regarding 4n4 is a lot less then 1n1. "

I also think that introducing a new map to the 1on1 tournaments is ALOT easier than for 4on4.
Simply because:
1. You as an individual can decide for yourself whether you think its worth practicing it.
2. Its alot easier to just find 1 other player and go play it, or join an empty server voting it and having the chance of someone else wanting to play it. Then it is to get 8people together (especially since the best practice on maps are praccs and not public mixes)

And finally a good map imo should have as many possibilities in each situation as possible without bloating it.
and I do think that many ID maps lack that in the ability to exit/enter a room in more than one narrow way.

It doesn't justify removing a map from the duel map list, just because you suck on it. If we are talking frustration like described by kwibus, then dm2, dm4 and dm6 should be removed as well...

I agree that frustation because of sucking on a map isn't a reason to remove it. I do not suck on dm2, but if I or my opponent wants too he/she or I can make it an aweful game. I agree that it's possible on every map, but there ain't a better map to spoil the game as on dm2. There is only 1 map that gets 1-0 or 0--1 results sometimes and that's dm2.
Well on dm4 I certainly suck so maybe i'm biased toward that map, but when I look at the layout and the way it's being played I truely sometimes wonder why were still playing it

Personally I find ztn an underrated map. There are plenty of options and shortcuts. Sure it's hard to retake control, but there are multiple options to do so.

dm6 is imo a fine map, maybe a bit simple looking at the layout, but it does allow so much options. Specially looking at the dag days. Wow.

Aerowalk is brilliant. Pretty much everything of.. sure it's spamheaven, but all maps are spamheaven besides dm6 imo. A little less ammo on aero couldn't hurt. I suck big time on aero as I can't keep up with the pace of the map. Specially players that are able to use the teles to full advantage totally drive me crazy.

start by playing different maps; right now, when you are reading this, go to the server, switch to some non-tb5 map and make first player joining the server play it with you; do everything you can to make him play that map with you, no matter how silly/relevant his excuses are, insist on playing that (or some other, if he's really stubborn) non-tb5 map

new maps wont get accepted by talks on forum, but by doing good (really good) tournaments in it; one day kenya tournaments were great, but not enough

I have wanted to do some kenya tournaments but as it is right now I will not have the time until November to do anything about it, though I got some rough planning for it. Biggest problem is obviously website, which is something I can't even start learning how to do properly until then.

Now if someone really wants to see this start by making a webpage for it, just get phptourney up and running, maybe ask Phil and then start to recruit admins. I could help but as I said, got very little time to do that for the next two months.

Or just ask for access to use the QKC site?

Sometimes what was good and is now dead should remain dead. Lets not risk ruining the name of QKC by using it for new tournaments when its dead already. Just like Challenge Smackdown should never be revived.

You fear that you would fail?

Not fail, but not perform up to par with peoples nostalgic memories.

swi is happy to provide the site for tournaments. ATM ruskie is planning on having a tournament under the QKC-name. Swi is a nice guy and they really LOVE kenya-maps in QKC so they are happy to provide the means to play a tournament on new maps

The abandoned maps will be happy if even just one match is played on them, so let's make some kenya-maps happy.


Thx. The site is still there, so feel free to use it if you wanna run some more kenya tourneys in the same causual-quick-format as before. I won't be playing anymore, though I can help out with the technicalities of administration.
Dunno about ruskie's ambitions with this but he had some map that i think he wants to administrate a quick duel tourney on and maybe he will keep administrating further tourneys after that.

Personally if I am going to run a tournament (won't happen until November) it would be more then a quick tourney. I would run one going on for 1 maybe 2 months, using a 5 map pool and double elimination. If this is possible using the QKC site, Swi please contact me, I can be found in #Kenya. I would like to start preparing soon to make sure everything runs smoothly with proper rules and prepare some questionnaires to send to the players after the tournament to improve further tournaments and map pools.

Ah okey. Not possible in the QKC system which were sort of a ladder, playing each tourney on one map in just a couple of intense hours. But what you're talking about is a standard tourney format that already has a choice of systems ready to be used. Find a host, smack a logo on it and set it up. I think you were on the right way in your first post here.

Lions never fully die.