After a quick peek at http://eztv.eql.nu and in All-seeing Eye i noticed there are quite a few servers that still aren't ezTV enabled. I thought i'd ask why it's like that on this forum as i don't have the energy to go around bugging people. Also more people would be able to join the discussion and any misinterpretations that exist can be cleared.

The servers i'm thinking about are:
Gamers.nu (aka Quake.se) - I think some of the admins said they didn't want to enable it due to bugs related to ezTV causing the servers to go down all the time
qw.speciell.org
Gravity allround
Uttergrottan
Xs4all
Various russian servers

Argh, checking All-seeing eye again i realise there are quite a few servers that don't show up on the ezTV page. The question could be a more general one then - why aren't these servers either updated to KTX or ezTV enabled? Are the admins still around?

Well, how to install it?

/me shouts for Renzo to arrive

Good example of admins not knowing how things are. EZTV hasn't caused MVDSV to hang in 5 months, and nowadays it doesn't even hang the TCP port anymore (REQUIREMENT: newest possible MVDSV). If MVDSV hangs, it's due to a certain bug in demo recording and has nothing to do with EZTV being connected or not.



The only requirement for proper stability is 0.28-SVN MVDSV (without MVDSV restart function). Features like better autotrack etc. are KTX and ezQuake related (functionality).

If you don't know how to SVN, compile, update and want to be up-to-date, don't be a server admin (or find someone to do updating for you).

Edit: the last sentence

I think it has already shown that such attitude doesn't lead to updated servers.

Guess if I care? It's not like it's my problem.

If the admins don't want (or can't) to provide EZTV capability for the players, they can have their 24/7 qizmo cams.

I'll toss in my explanation: Gravity has its own QTV at port 30000, since ftesrv crashes from ezTV connections at the moment I put a password on the stream. Should be fully usable, but if something's missing please tell me and I'll try to fix it (and try to look into what ezTV does to crash ftesrv).

How fast does this crash happen?

Some harsh words in this thread but i hope you guys have a mutual understanding of eachother. I think this thread will do some good if some of the current (and future) server admins participate. ezTV definitely is the future and is something to prefer compared to Qizmo cams.

Usually a few seconds after mapchange. Do you want a specific time?

There's no official/stable version of MVDSV with ezTV yet.



Edit.: stable/official != SVN != CVS

Yes, hate is on the air. I can help any admin setting up those, uh, two needed settings to make MVDSV EZTV able. Well, they both are on the first EZTV thread here on server talk forum.

Only after map change, not after being connected by EZTV?

I'm pretty sure the next stable MVDSV will be the one with demo recording fixed, if Deurk gets his things right. The problem is that MVDSV 0.27 is MORE bugged than any of the 0.28-SVN builds. Want to have a list what actually works in SVN version and fails in 0.27?

Few examples: (works with SVN version)
- cmd dl .
- cmd minping when eztv connected
- tcp port hung (eztv related)
- safer demo recording
- proper chunked download support
- "fixing one considerably serious bug which persist for last few years, and one small"

The list continues. Still thinking "unofficial" releases are less safer than SVN builds?

Ake_Vader: I understand that Renzo can't do much about "no offcial MVDSV release available", but I have no understanding for him defending the laziness of the MVDSV team - I am pointing out that it is what slows down the whole progress (it is answer to your question in my opinion).
If MVDSV team could at least release snapshot of source codes, that'd help a lot in my opinion.

I am defending nothing.

Perhaps they should release stable or then perhaps they shouldn't. MVDSV "stable" releases have been pretty horrible so far, so I'd like to see at least ONE stable release every now and then (the fact that MVDSV hangs randomly when map should be changed after the game, or it might segfault when player disconnects bugs the shit out of me) instead of having all these broken builds (miraculously SVN versions usually work...).

About lazyness, I can't agree on that fully. There are people who do stuff and there are people who don't. But in the end the project admin should make an effort to wake up those idling ones, even if he wouldn't be able to fix things himself.

If they start pushing out beta builds, there would probably never be an official release around

Only after map change.

So, I think we need stable stable!

Since when running a QW server makes you an ADMIN as opposed to "admin", jesus how stupid can you get Renzo?

If you put up a server, then you are supposed be to be somewhat active and up-to-date. If you're not interested, have someone else do the shitty job.


P.S. You just don't get it, do you? Have a nice little vacation. (constant rule breaker)

I agree with Renzo here, though his wording isn't one I'd use

If you can only host servers, and not be active in keeping them up-to-date and such, then that's ok. Just let someone who's more into it have remote access and admin the servers from afar. Being the only admin on servers that are desperately in need of updates while not being able to do those updates yourself is bad.

What's wrong with my not so friendly and a bit aggressive wording ?;(((((((((((((((
(I even removed few quotes to not make some people so sad)


Edit: dammit all to hell, I'll explain this only once, this time.

MVDSV (KTX + EZTV too) is a far cry from being perfect. This means that if you want to provide players the best possible experience with little annoying shit like 1. unworking maps 2. unworking commands 3. stable builds 4. etc. you really need to have updated binaries.

Updating isn't hard to do, just fetch the SVN sources with your SVN client. Heck, there's even help on the MVDSV SVN site how to do that, then just configure&compile and overwrite existing stuff and re-run your servers.

Now that you actually CAN do this thing on your own, you'll get to see fewer bugs and you can actually get them fixed in few days. Just report the damn bug to someone from MVDSV staff and he'll fix it at some point. But if you DON'T do this, then you'll just have to wait for some official release. If it has bugs, you can report them but if you are not willing to use SVN builds, you'll just have to wait for the next official release that might be released in the distant future.

Now back to the beginning. There are bugs and there will be bugs in the future. Then there are fatal bugs that crash/hang the server (not the hardware but the port running) and others that just lead into undesired operation. You can always downgrade to the last working version, but how long back are you willing to go? Every time you downgrade you'll lose functionality and features. Also some of the older bugs will be present again.

This is why you should be active if you want to be a server admin that actually "cares". Getting stuff via SVN, configuring and compiling the binaries takes like 2 minutes at most. Two killalls + two copy commands and the server(s) restart takes like 15 seconds unless you're slow at typing. It takes less than 3 minutes to update all the servers I admin so it's not that time consuming or hard (and if you're good at what you do, you can always have it automated). Usually you should at least check if the servers are running and perhaps visit them once to make sure they are connectable. Then just wait people to msg you on something not working. Do this once a week or once in two weeks and there you go.

Also it's good to know some people from the project and have somewhat good relationship with them, makes it easier to report bugs and get things fixed (hi qqshka, hi deurk ).

Well, but this is my problem So I have to wait for a new offizial release

Renzo, you forgot to mention the "getting and installing SVN client" part. Maybe it's trivial, but it takes time and efforts too.
Another thing: There is no official guideline from MVDSV team that'd say: it's safe to compile from SVN and use it on official public servers. For example on ezQuake homepage we clearly state what alpha builds are. When I open MVDSV page I see "page under construction".
On the other side it is nice that you mentioned on the forum what bugs are fixed and so on and I appreciate such effort. Maybe you could write some news announcements for MVDSV team? I'm pointing out MVDSV is very silent group and I think server admins are not sure what is the recommended way to do things.

I can do that. But I wonder if I should qw.nu forum or the KTX and MVDSV sites? I mean just look at it:

http://ktx.quakeonline.net/

Pretty good stuff. I hope the MVDSV site comes up soon too.

About using SVN (if you have client installed). Go either to the MVDSV site or the KTX site on sourceforge.net and check the small menu under code link. Select the object SVN and you'll get to see instructions on how to get sources using SVN client.



Taken from the KTX SVN:


To get SVN installed to your shell, you need to check package called "subversion". For example in Debian you can use "apt-get install subversion" or in Gentoo you can use "emerge subversion" commands. (su rights are needed)

I"m just lazy

mvdsv could get auto updating of both server binary and ktx mod (with failover to previous binary in the event of a bad update) ?

Sounds somewhat good, but someone would have to be there to check how good will the builds work or are they a disaster.

I'd like to state that the average server admins (servers where important league games and such are played) should definitely not be encouraged to update their servers from SVN, but use a _proper_ and _stable_ release that should be easily found on the engines homepage. Until a new such release is out, the players simply have to cope with what is currently considered stable.

I thought Renzo took care of all those (Wargamez, QW.dk, Suomicom, Troopers) servers - using SVN builds?