User panel stuff on forum
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General Discussion
2007-12-06, 21:53
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447 posts

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Jan 2006
The cooldown of the RL is like what, 0.9 seconds? And you would need 0.3 seconds just to react to the fact that there are enemies in the room. I think you are making a massive miscalculation if you think this will make any difference whatsoever.
Teamplay is nothing. Aim is everything. OBEY YOUR AIM

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/9017/end2ub.jpg
2007-12-06, 22:10
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Jan 2006
shaga wrote:
I'm teh king! I can tell who is firing and what my eyes closed. It's all that noise they are making. Lets ban sounds?

best quote this month.
2007-12-06, 22:17
Member
364 posts

Registered:
Oct 2006
ui, I think you're making up arguments just for the sake of argument.

Why don't you make some 1x1 pixel colored w_ skins in Photoshop, play a dozen of games on quake.msk.ru and tell us what you think.
2007-12-06, 22:56
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Jan 2006
5) Before you post please ask yourself "am I contributing something worthwhile to this thread?". If the answer is no, please do not post.

I'm contributing with my opinion which is partly based on facts, partly based on my estimations, and partly based on my gut feeling that tells me that QW needs to evolve in order to stay alive. What's your excuse for being stupid?
Teamplay is nothing. Aim is everything. OBEY YOUR AIM

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/9017/end2ub.jpg
2007-12-06, 23:28
Member
950 posts

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Apr 2006
ui, please stay polite in regard to rule #1 since you seem to read them:

1) Please don't be abusive to other users. If you have a problem with a particular user, take it to a private message or to IRC - keep personal flamewars away from the forum.
2007-12-06, 23:50
Member
355 posts

Registered:
Jun 2006
I say no because there are still a lot of people who don't use sg scripts. It's stupid for the enemy to see what weapon the person has even though there's no way he should have known that (picked up an obscure pack, didn't hear the pickup, etc).
2007-12-07, 00:57
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Feb 2006
do not allow vwep
2007-12-07, 02:46
Member
229 posts

Registered:
Aug 2007
So you are saying there shouldn't be an option to allow or disallow it if players want? Like teamoverlay, it can be allowed or disallowed by a simple command. I'm against using teamoverlay but if some players want to use it in their games, it's up to them.
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2007-12-07, 04:51
Administrator
1843 posts

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Feb 2006
atleast get it for spectating/qtv/demo playback
2007-12-07, 15:31
Member
355 posts

Registered:
Jun 2006
Zalon wrote:
atleast get it for spectating/qtv/demo playback

Agreed for those aspects.

shaga wrote:
So you are saying there shouldn't be an option to allow or disallow it if players want? Like teamoverlay, it can be allowed or disallowed by a simple command. I'm against using teamoverlay but if some players want to use it in their games, it's up to them.

I really don't think it should EVER be allowed when playing. I haven't really used team overlay, but it doesn't tell you info about the enemy player that you potentially might not know (bit debatable, but the only argument against this requires very good tp skills). VWEP on is a MAJOR disadvantage to players who don't use sg scripts, and there are a lot of us who really prefer not to use these for numerous reasons. I can understand its purpose for spectating, but for actually playing the game, it may be more of a cheat in my opinion.
2007-12-07, 16:17
Member
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Apr 2006
(how can it be a cheat if everybody has it?)
2007-12-07, 16:21
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there are functions in ezq now that lets you get best of both worlds (sg scripts versus no sg scripts)
2007-12-07, 17:08
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447 posts

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Jan 2006
PlaZmaZ wrote:
shaga wrote:
So you are saying there shouldn't be an option to allow or disallow it if players want? Like teamoverlay, it can be allowed or disallowed by a simple command. I'm against using teamoverlay but if some players want to use it in their games, it's up to them.

I really don't think it should EVER be allowed when playing. I haven't really used team overlay, but it doesn't tell you info about the enemy player that you potentially might not know (bit debatable, but the only argument against this requires very good tp skills). VWEP on is a MAJOR disadvantage to players who don't use sg scripts, and there are a lot of us who really prefer not to use these for numerous reasons. I can understand its purpose for spectating, but for actually playing the game, it may be more of a cheat in my opinion.

This is absurd. How you can persist in thinking that enabling vweps will make any real difference is beyond me, but claiming that teamoverlay gives less advantage than vweps is just plain crazy. Considering the team overlay automatically keeps track of all your mates, including their position, armor, health, powerups and weapons, you'd have to be extremely good at reading reports (and remembering them!) to compensate. It's simply on a whole different level - strategic importance vs. tactical decision-making. And I honestly doubt the tactics will change the least bit with the introduction of vweps.
Teamplay is nothing. Aim is everything. OBEY YOUR AIM

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/9017/end2ub.jpg
2007-12-07, 17:11
Member
137 posts

Registered:
Sep 2006
"If you vote no, please give us a detailed explanation WHY you voted no, and not some stupid thing like "i dont like it" or "changes gameplay". Why don't you like it, and why and how does it change gameplay?

I personally think it's a great move forward, and is a nice cosmetic change"

i really like the settings in modern clients to boost the graphics and flow. but change this game? and with reasons as it doesnt change that much, and to get it more like modern games?
i think the accuracy in shooting the right guy will increase and atleast make u do one ore two less misstakes a week using it, making atleast me want to use it if my opponents are.

i dont care if its there as an option, but i dont think its a good idea to make it a standard.

and the cosmetic benefit will probebly only be when looking at movies or speccing games since im guessing most ppl will use different coloured fullbright skins for each weapon to get most efficiency out of it. making qw look even worse then just the fullbright skins of today.
and pls, never change the cool and very rough ranger. he is an icon of quake

edit: HAHAHA, after posting this im taking down my plaster ranger high up from the wall to take its picture, forgetting that the weapon is just resting in his arms, not glued.. so it broke in two, lol
not a good sign if u belive in those
hope i can plaster it together again
2007-12-07, 18:41
Member
355 posts

Registered:
Jun 2006
deurk wrote:
(how can it be a cheat if everybody has it?)

If everyone had a wallhack, would it be a cheat? Of course it would.

My main reasoning against VWEP in games is that it hurts players who do not use sg scripts of weaponhide.

empezar wrote:
there are functions in ezq now that lets you get best of both worlds (sg scripts versus no sg scripts)

Yeah I know about cl_weaponhide and cl_weaponpreselect, but I still refer to it as a sgscript because it still hides your weapon and shows a shotgun.

ui wrote:
PlaZmaZ wrote:
shaga wrote:
So you are saying there shouldn't be an option to allow or disallow it if players want? Like teamoverlay, it can be allowed or disallowed by a simple command. I'm against using teamoverlay but if some players want to use it in their games, it's up to them.

I really don't think it should EVER be allowed when playing. I haven't really used team overlay, but it doesn't tell you info about the enemy player that you potentially might not know (bit debatable, but the only argument against this requires very good tp skills). VWEP on is a MAJOR disadvantage to players who don't use sg scripts, and there are a lot of us who really prefer not to use these for numerous reasons. I can understand its purpose for spectating, but for actually playing the game, it may be more of a cheat in my opinion.

This is absurd. How you can persist in thinking that enabling vweps will make any real difference is beyond me, but claiming that teamoverlay gives less advantage than vweps is just plain crazy. Considering the team overlay automatically keeps track of all your mates, including their position, armor, health, powerups and weapons, you'd have to be extremely good at reading reports (and remembering them!) to compensate. It's simply on a whole different level - strategic importance vs. tactical decision-making. And I honestly doubt the tactics will change the least bit with the introduction of vweps.

For one, I was only talking about gathering enemy information. Teamoverlay cannot tell you that unless you are smart enough to realize that rl spawned 3 seconds ago, it's not there when you checked, and then you see no teammate has rl and none said took. That's not really a top tier tp skill to understand I know, but it's just one example of what I meant how teamoverlay only gives you limited info regarding enemies. Teamoverlay doesn't tell you if an enemy has a weapon. Think about this, griffin is trying to bait you on e1m2 with his sg because he has 2 rockets left and you think he has no rl. So you fall for his perfectly played bait until he switches to RL a bit too soon and then you see RL thanks to VWEP and you back off. What about you're playing dm4 1on1 and you killed your opponent early with a lucky spam shot into ammo (you're at ya exit) and he spawns in ammo and grabs the pack. You do not know if he fired 4 or 5 rockets, or if he even had rl selected, but you have lg and armors aren't up so you are about to rush in to him and see his RL because he has it selected.

Not everyone uses scripts/weaponhide to hide their weapons for many reasons. Of course I think VWEP should be enabled for spectating/qtv/demo, and maybe make it a server cmd, but I think it should be limited like teamoverlay to lower divs at this moment.

I really don't care about 4on4 tbh, but I still think that in all gametypes this may ruin it for those who don't use sg scripts.

hoder wrote:
i dont care if its there as an option, but i dont think its a good idea to make it a standard.

and the cosmetic benefit will probebly only be when looking at movies or speccing games since im guessing most ppl will use different coloured fullbright skins for each weapon to get most efficiency out of it. making qw look even worse then just the fullbright skins of today.
and pls, never change the cool and very rough ranger. he is an icon of quake

Fully agreed.
2007-12-07, 20:28
Member
229 posts

Registered:
Aug 2007
PlaZmaZ wrote:
hoder wrote:
i dont care if its there as an option, but i dont think its a good idea to make it a standard.

Fully agreed.

That was my point.

shaga wrote:
So you are saying there shouldn't be an option to allow or disallow it if players want? Like teamoverlay, it can be allowed or disallowed by a simple command. I'm against using teamoverlay but if some players want to use it in their games, it's up to them.

My point wasn't comparing it to overlay other way than having option to enable it and also defaulting it to disabled. So lets not talk about teamoverlay and keep on topic.
TEAM QUAD [need nothing]
shaga loses another friend
shaga discovers blast radius

QUAD
2007-12-08, 00:59
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447 posts

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Jan 2006
PlaZmaZ wrote:
For one, I was only talking about gathering enemy information. Teamoverlay cannot tell you that unless you are smart enough to realize that rl spawned 3 seconds ago, it's not there when you checked, and then you see no teammate has rl and none said took. That's not really a top tier tp skill to understand I know, but it's just one example of what I meant how teamoverlay only gives you limited info regarding enemies. Teamoverlay doesn't tell you if an enemy has a weapon. Think about this, griffin is trying to bait you on e1m2 with his sg because he has 2 rockets left and you think he has no rl. So you fall for his perfectly played bait until he switches to RL a bit too soon and then you see RL thanks to VWEP and you back off. What about you're playing dm4 1on1 and you killed your opponent early with a lucky spam shot into ammo (you're at ya exit) and he spawns in ammo and grabs the pack. You do not know if he fired 4 or 5 rockets, or if he even had rl selected, but you have lg and armors aren't up so you are about to rush in to him and see his RL because he has it selected.

Obviously you have never played against griffin. There is no chance in hell that you will have the time to "back off", as you say, by noticing such 'errors' made by div0 players with rl - you will simply be dead before you realize what's going on. Claiming that teamoverlay gives you no hard info about enemies is a valid point, but that vweps would give a big advantage over players who don't use sgscripts is just ludicrous.
Teamplay is nothing. Aim is everything. OBEY YOUR AIM

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/9017/end2ub.jpg
2007-12-08, 06:39
Member
355 posts

Registered:
Jun 2006
shaga wrote:
PlaZmaZ wrote:
hoder wrote:
i dont care if its there as an option, but i dont think its a good idea to make it a standard.

Fully agreed.

That was my point.

shaga wrote:
So you are saying there shouldn't be an option to allow or disallow it if players want? Like teamoverlay, it can be allowed or disallowed by a simple command. I'm against using teamoverlay but if some players want to use it in their games, it's up to them.

My point wasn't comparing it to overlay other way than having option to enable it and also defaulting it to disabled. So lets not talk about teamoverlay and keep on topic.

I just clarified my position a little. Earlier I took your argument and then went on a tangent, sorry if it seemed like I was disagreeing with you

ui wrote:
Obviously you have never played against griffin. There is no chance in hell that you will have the time to "back off", as you say, by noticing such 'errors' made by div0 players with rl - you will simply be dead before you realize what's going on. Claiming that teamoverlay gives you no hard info about enemies is a valid point, but that vweps would give a big advantage over players who don't use sgscripts is just ludicrous.

Yep, I've never played against griffin (haven't even seen many demos of him in teamplay tbh, but from the few recent gtg demos I saw, he was running around with rl out quite a bit). But the point isn't intended to be valid for only div0 - it's intended for all divisions. Of course div0 players won't make mistakes like that but I won't be surprised if a lot of lower divs did
2007-12-08, 09:33
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Jan 2006
Lower divs consist mainly of people who haven't played QW for very long and thus were introduced to it in the age of weaponscripts, so I bet the vast majority of these players use them. Also, lowdiv players won't benefit from vweps because they simply aren't fast enough. (It's doubtful whether div0 players could use it to their advantage.)
Teamplay is nothing. Aim is everything. OBEY YOUR AIM

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/9017/end2ub.jpg
2007-12-08, 12:21
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129 posts

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Apr 2007
I just think it would look cool.. : ]
2007-12-08, 15:59
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Feb 2006
i'd like to see an acted situation of one coming behind a corner (lets say... dm3 quad area!) and one shoots a rocket, so there is knowledge about enemies being there. coming behind the corner as the rocket launcher is cooling off and lets say one is cooling off his gl. would it be an immediate reaction to which one has the rl and which one doesnt, or would it change the situation at all comparing to no vwep being used
2007-12-08, 16:49
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add the probability of these two guys not using sg scripts
2007-12-08, 17:15
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229 posts

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Aug 2007
I just don't get it why ppl are against allowing the option to enable/disable it. Almost everyone would still play it disabled almost any given time. Of course it affects gameplay from time to time but why force a possibility for a choice? I'm all against allowing this for tournaments/leagues but it shouldn't matter for this vote(or discussion).
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2007-12-14, 06:27
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Nov 2007
ui is correct. Div0 players are perfect. They never make mistakes. There is absolutely no chance that a div0 player would ever switch to rl too soon, because they are robots and can calculate everything instantly, without ever fucking up.
2007-12-14, 19:05
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Jan 2006
Dustin wrote:
ui is correct. Div0 players are perfect. They never make mistakes. There is absolutely no chance that a div0 player would ever switch to rl too soon, because they are robots and can calculate everything instantly, without ever fucking up.

This post fails in every way imaginable. How you actually manage to miss my point so completely is above me.
Teamplay is nothing. Aim is everything. OBEY YOUR AIM

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2007-12-14, 19:19
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Jan 2006
I doubt dustin was serious
2007-12-15, 00:13
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447 posts

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Jan 2006
Is there some kind of ban against clarity on this forum lately?
Teamplay is nothing. Aim is everything. OBEY YOUR AIM

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/9017/end2ub.jpg
2007-12-16, 17:48
Member
343 posts

Registered:
Apr 2007
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y300/ThePerfectTrip/vwep1.png


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y300/ThePerfectTrip/vwep2.png


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y300/ThePerfectTrip/vwep3.png


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y300/ThePerfectTrip/vwep4.png


http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y300/ThePerfectTrip/vwep5.png


all these shots taken on Elvis Victims FFA

vweps are not only a pretty thing, but a nice feel to quakeworld. even if vweps can't be universal on ezquake, its still awesome to have them on specific servers =]
2007-12-16, 21:15
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447 posts

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Jan 2006
Looks great imho.
Teamplay is nothing. Aim is everything. OBEY YOUR AIM

http://img178.imageshack.us/img178/9017/end2ub.jpg
2007-12-18, 00:19
Member
343 posts

Registered:
Apr 2007
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y300/ThePerfectTrip/vwep_action.png


crazy action!

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y300/ThePerfectTrip/vwep_action2.png


intense battling!

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y300/ThePerfectTrip/vwep_shot.png


we are now aware that this fella is carrying an lg =]
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