Age :30
Group: News Writer
Location: Ekerö, Stockholm, Sweden
A fairly new QuakeWorld player, started in 2009~2010. Originally from Quake 3, CPMA.
Member of SuddenDeath.
Very interested in the community and its progress. Also sort of a commentator and a Hymn of Hope tournament admin.
DreamHack  /  28 Nov 2009, 20:34
DreamHack Winter
Oh well, so DreamHack winter is over, or at least the QW part is.
I can't say I'm that satisfied as I was last year. Even though it seemed there were more spectators watching the QW final in the dreamarena extreme (probably due to QL becoming so big?), everything seemed so much more off than last summer.

For starters, the QW tournament was only 2 days. That sucks, three days may give it more waiting, but also more time to get the tournament-feeling going. Some time to think over your mistakes in the last game and perfect your gameplay and start focusing real hard on the upcoming matches. Give it a little nerve!

Secondly, very boring lineup. Only three players of real high standard - LocKtar, bps and Nabbe, with Nabbe who nearly hasn't played at all since last DreamHack and was in terrible shape. As Arnette said yesterday - he'd do better games vs LocKtar than Nabbe did. Real boring lineup really. Bps is insanely good, and I like him alot, but he does have problems beating LocKtar. So basically, LocKtar went there as a winner before the tournament even started. As he said in the interview before the finals; "I'll win easy". What kind of a final is that?!

Even though not many more players attended last summer, still Locust was there etc and ParadokS was supposed to be coming, also Phil came there from the states even, which made the feeling a bit better. But it could be so much better. Soooo much better.

Even the finals were boring. Apart from the games being not that interesting, the DreamArena Extreme was awful with the QW settings this time. I don't know what was different from last time, but for starters I don't think they watched it as a regular spectator last summer? Also they used a completely different config, which was so much better. These finals started off with gl_gamma 10000? Very dark, no good skins, awful crosshair, everything was really awful. A real boring experience to watch.

I was pushing everyone to record the stream to let people who missed it watch it lateron.

- You didn't miss much.


LocKtar deserved to win the tournament and so he did, but he didn't have much competition. Not to take anything away from bps or Nabbe. They are both great players, but at this moment none of them is close to LocKtar. Sad story Locust didn't show up.

And where the hell is Milton? Reppie? ParadokS?

Reppie and ParadokS are very inactive. I know. But Milton? There's even cash to be won, mate? No offense, but really, good players deciding not to show up at lans/tournaments is what kills QW a little bit more every day. Everything would be so much more serious if the good players would actually show up for these kinds of stuff.

Oh well, too much shittalking here I guess. But to sum up;

Last summer's DreamHack QuakeWorld Tournament was at least 10x better than this winter's. Sad but true.

Congratulations to Locke yet again, and let's hope next dreamhack quakeworld tournament gets to be better. And much better prepared.

And... I regret having a few problems with my fruntimmer which caused me not to be able to attend to the tournament myself. Otherwise I would have.

I sincerely hope someone else enjoyed it!

So long,
Andeh
Comments
2009-11-29, 14:35
Perhaps should add a congratulation to LocKtar, Nabbe and bps for the 1-2-3 positions and also thank them for going to dreamhack. Hope more will do so next time
2009-11-29, 17:03
Nice read as usual andeh!
2009-11-29, 18:13
I agree that its sad that more of the best players dont show up. But it was realy fun to meat the qw people again. And DH isnt only about playing, its about meating friends and have a good time. And still being able to play and watch some nice qw games. We talked to the admins over some beers and someone came up with the idea that we could play eql playofs div1 on next dreamhack winter. The only thing we need is to start eql a bit earlier and get 100% from the top 4 teams that they will have 4players to dreamhack. Would be awsome. Think about is
2009-11-29, 18:50
where's zappaters qw-coverage?
2009-11-29, 19:09
Of course ok98, I'm sure it's hell of a nice time being there!

But I was speaking out of a spectator's perspective ^^
2009-11-29, 19:10
Funny idea, by the way. But I think it might be a bit less spectator friendly to people who are not QW players already. It's a bit harder to keep up what's going on in 4on4 than in 1on1. But perhaps it could work!
2009-11-29, 19:20
Could make it a 4on4 invitation tourney.....
And i think we have had 1on1 on some dh now and with so few big names something need to hapen before admins find other games instead.
2009-11-29, 19:54
I think it's sad that we don't really exploit this opportunity to its full potential. I guess we need to do figure out the main reasons for people not showing up. Some people would suggest a 4on4 tournament instead of 1on1, but how many teams would show up then? Two? I doubt it would be much more of a success. They already did 2on2 once, but only a handful of real QW teams showed up then too. Also the suggestion about 4on4 playoffs at Dreamhack is a bit of a dream; do you really think the top four (or so) teams would play the most important games of the season on a setup that's not really their own? Also getting them to bother to go there etc.

If we can't get 16 really good QW 1on1 players to show up for the biggest LAN in the world, with the game being shown to a wider audience through being broadcasted and commentated on a big screen, then i'm not sure we deserve more than we currently have.

Is it a question of money, time or are people just getting too old and comfortable?
2009-11-29, 21:14
"do you really think the top four (or so) teams would play the most important games of the season on a setup that's not really their own?"
Absoulutley. Took me 2*3min pov to play as good as at home. So thats not a problem.
Can u just get tvs get 4 to come i think the rest would come. (maybe not ussr) But ther other clans dont have that long to travel to dh. And the reason ussr have hard to get there it would be bether with a own tournament with 4-6 div1 clans.
2009-11-30, 00:57
ake: my reasons this year..: lack of interest in qw, lack of money and bad timing school/work wise
2009-11-30, 00:58
oh and congrats to locke ofcourse!
2009-11-30, 07:06
I do agree with Ake. For years most have been moaning that qw didn't get the attention it deserves. Now Dreamhack allows a platform for qw where the entire world will watch us, but most people don't show. That's sad, but it's also obvious qw will never get big anymore.

Personally i'm much more interested in qw 4n4 then 1n1. In QL it's vice versa so i'm kinda satisfied. I watch QL 1n1 tournaments and play QW 4n4.
2009-11-30, 08:12
Milton is the undisputed QW champion of practices and the king of the gym. Its like being Mike Tyson and never enter the ring, but beating the crap out everybody in the gym and on the stretts, and never showing your true skills where it counts. Makes Milton a true King Nothing as Metallica sang back in the 90's.

No offence!

WP Locktar.
2009-11-30, 10:41
Everyone doesnt like duels and/or going to LANs tho

Winning EQL/NQR playoffs is proof enough for some (even tho it is 4on4 only)
2009-11-30, 15:59
4v4 for DH! We(Slackers) would go for sure
2009-11-30, 17:49
They started with 2on2 tournament, not really "true" tournament mod in QW and then 16 players only 1on1 tournament. Check the list - QW has almost the lowest amount of opened slots.
Also as you describe they didn't bother to setup spec config properly too much. Also they asked for help with setting up QTV on irc in the "last minute". AFAIK Zalon had to help them right on the place. Clearly QW is not their main interest - and it's their decision, not QW community fault. Year back I was also upset about low quality of QW on dreamhack, but this year I don't care anymore. Why would anyone care to travel far away because of 16 players tournament? If you are from Sweden, are not QW-only player, have free time and like to spec other games, then it's an event for you. Complaining that Milton didn't care to go to DH is ridiculous.

If they open tournament for 8 people only next year, will you cry again that the tournament isn't interesting? Will you complain that Milton didn't care to travel to beat 7 random players? Please... Also it's not about the money - you can win more money by participating in any silly TV show. Go to QHLAN if you want some serious QWing.
2009-11-30, 18:15
@JohnNy_cz

"They started with 2on2 tournament, not really "true" tournament mod in QW and then 16 players only 1on1 tournament. Check the list - QW has almost the lowest amount of opened slots."
I'm sure they would be happy to increase the amount of players for the Quakeworld tournament to 32 players instead of 16 - if we can get enough players there! I actually asked Blaze this during DH Summer 09 and got that response. The problem is that not many players are willing to go there obviously.


"Also as you describe they didn't bother to setup spec config properly too much. Also they asked for help with setting up QTV on irc in the "last minute". AFAIK Zalon had to help them right on the place. Clearly QW is not their main interest - and it's their decision, not QW community fault."
Their interest in Quakeworld is probably in proportion to the interest of this tournament in the QW community, which has declined since the start for no good reason. This is like the fourth or fifth time Dreamhack features an official QW tournament, and it's still the same few people showing up with slight variations? I'm sure they would admit they were poorly prepared this time, but such things happen.


"If they open tournament for 8 people only next year, will you cry again that the tournament isn't interesting? Will you complain that Milton didn't care to travel to beat 7 random players? Please... Also it's not about the money - you can win more money by participating in any silly TV show. Go to QHLAN if you want some serious QWing."
"Random players" is not what we want; the utopia would be to fill these 16 spots with high quality players where almost every game would be even steven of course. \o/

I wonder if more people would turn up if it was arranged in Stockholm instead of Jönköping.
2009-11-30, 20:09
I'm happy to hear from ok98 that the players that did attend, had a good time. At the summer event I had a blast as well.

However what Andeh says about the winter tournament is true, tournament wise it wasn't as flashy as previous DreamHack tournaments, but we have only ourselves to blame for that.

JohnNy_cz wrote:
They started with 2on2 tournament, not really "true" tournament mod in QW and then 16 players only 1on1 tournament.
Thats not true, they started with a 32 player tournament with 25000sek in cash and prizes at the Winter 2007 event (the one ParadokS won). We didn't fill that one either!
Then at Summer 2008 they had a 16 Player tournament, due to the previous 32 one wasn't filled. Here ParadokS and Nabbe didn't show up.
Winter 2008 was the 16 teams 2on2 tournament. Here only 8 teams were signed, with only 6 of them being quality teams. (Eg. we only filled half of the 16 spots)
For the Summer 2009 event, it was once again back to duel with a 16 player tournament here we had quite many people showing up ALSO FROM OUTSIDE OF SWEDEN, and with more than 1-2 contenders, it was a far more interesting tournament than the event we just had.

JohnNy_cz wrote:
Clearly QW is not their main interest - and it's their decision, not QW community fault
How can you say that? It is only our fault! Since the first tournament, the admins have said that we can have more spots, but when we can't even fill the 16 we start with, how would it help adding more? We keep talking about getting QW out there, but when the possibilities come and the options to do it are there, we don't act on it.

I remember back when there were talks about renting a LAN center/computer café, to hold our own lan tournament with community sponsored cash prizes etc, fast-forward a few years and DreamHack steps up. We just can't get it any easier than this, they provide the pc's for playing (quality pc's btw), they provide a spectator crowd, they provide commentators... Hell they even give us free cash for prizes! All this for the low cost of nothing for the competitors! All we have to do is show up, we don't!

JohnNy_cz wrote:
Why would anyone care to travel far away because of 16 players tournament?
Exactly, and when we don't care... Why should anyone care about us?

All I can extract from this is that we don't deserve to have a tournament like that, the game might deserve it, but we, the players surely do not.

This is all fine, but then we should just agree that this is a game that we want to play online, from the comfort of our home. All this bashing of DreamHack for giving us a chance at getting what never games get, that's just not fair!

Yeah the preparations for the actual tournament could have been better, but the tournaments are run by volunteers and It's not easy to get things done at DreamHack, when you're just 1 guy in a crowd of 10000. But I'm sure that if they choose to do a QuakeWorld tournament again (I can't see why they would) we could probably get our own guy (Åke Vader?) added to the admin list. But this wouldn't change anything about the tournament quality, if people still won't show up.

JohnNy_cz wrote:
Go to QHLAN if you want some serious QWing"
If people would then just do that at least, but I guess I'll see you there in January then?
2009-11-30, 20:25
Well put Zalon, i agree 100% with what you just wrote.
2009-11-30, 21:44
I +1 both Ake and Zalon's posts.
2009-11-30, 22:39
I think its to many negative words about dh. Cant we all try to make it a realy good qw tournament next time? 1on1 2on2 or 4on4 dont matter. As long as we can get many players to come. And i dont think a 4-6teams div1 4on4 would be that hard to get. Slackers and Sd would come. Just need some of the other clans to show some interest.
2009-11-30, 23:16
I'm not trying to be negative, I would love to see a high quality tournament at DreamHack... I'm just saying that it's not up to DreamHack to make it happen, it's up to us. And so far, we haven't been doing our part.

And regarding 4on4, I know why we like it and why we appreciate the high quality gameplay, but I fear that everyone outside of qw would just see it as 20minutes of FFA. I think duel is the only gamemode that fits for something like the DreamHack tournaments. It's a bit easier for the commentators to explain a 1on1 than a 4on4 game.

Div1 teams should consider showing up for QHLAN instead.
2009-12-01, 07:29
#18 and #22
Well said Mr. Zalon.

Concerning my own feelings abou DH. I won't go... unless I was any good.
2009-12-01, 14:31
So it's the community fault that it didn't fill all 32 slots on the first tournament? Because then 16 slots 1on1 was filled, then they decided for 2on2 (why?!), then another 16 slots was filled, and finaly yet another 16 slots filled. How do you want to fill 16 slots with top players if from start 8 slots are taken by the "random players" - people who clearly go there not because of QW? It is impossible and it is NOT the fault of the community.

BTW the "I agree with that guy" comments are nothing else but annoying.
2009-12-01, 14:49
They put the "random players" on the "pending" list this time to let known players in first, but there was obviously not a need for that...
2009-12-01, 15:15
Then it's a mistake it wasn't mentioned in the news items here. It's quite important info. Also I think those 4 "randoms" were from start listed as normal participants in this season, I remember only you being listed as pending, but maybe my memory plays tricks on me.

Also instead of blaming ParadokS or Milton for not coming, it'd be more constructive to ask some other players with bigger potential to come, why they didn't appear. Start a forum thread/poll or smth. Blaming ParadokS already lost in poker in 2008 or Milton who doesn't participate even in internet duel tournaments is easy escape from the real problem, which is probably somewhere else.
2009-12-01, 15:48
"Blaming ParadokS already lost in poker in 2008 or Milton who doesn't participate even in internet duel tournaments is easy escape from the real problem, which is probably somewhere else."
I'd be happy even if it was "just" semi-good (i.e. in my own skill range) players filling up the tournament but i guess there would be an extra interest among players to participate (and follow the tournament) if the real big shots showed up. I just think it's weak that we can't even fill a 16 players LAN tournament with at least "div2" material.
2009-12-01, 18:30
Sorry Mr. Johnny I will never agree again

Anyways. I don't blame anyone. I'm not going either so how could I blame anyone? It's their life so they should do with it whatever they want. Fact is tho, that aslong as they won't sign up DH QW won't be as interesting as it could be and QW won't get the attention it could get.
2009-12-02, 02:46
JohnNy_cz wrote:
So it's the community fault that it didn't fill all 32 slots on the first tournament? Because then 16 slots 1on1 was filled, then they decided for 2on2 (why?!), then another 16 slots was filled, and finaly yet another 16 slots filled.

Dunno how you got to this conclusion, I clearly stated in my post that we didn't fill ANY of the tournaments, in all the tournaments - Spots were given to randoms, as a last resort.

I'll give you that the 2on2 was a big wtf, and I told dronar back then that it was a bad choice, as we already had problems with getting 16 players to show for duel, now having to bring 32 for 2on2.

JohnNy_cz wrote:
How do you want to fill 16 slots with top players if from start 8 slots are taken by the "random players" - people who clearly go there not because of QW? It is impossible and it is NOT the fault of the community.

Where and when did you see 8 spots being filled by randoms? The tournament was announced in August, then 1 month later (end of September), the signups opened - The tournament link was then spammed multiple times on .qw the following months, it was mentioned in the forum and in comments here.

Up until I posted the "DreamHack in 2 weeks" news item, all spots were reserved for QW players. Even ok98 and LethalWiz was listed as pending, because the admins didn't know they were QW players, and they wanted to reserve the spots for real players. It took more than 2 months before any random players were added to the list, this is also true for the previous DreamHack tournaments.

For all the DreamHack tournaments, the admins have kept the signups limited to QW players, random players haven't been added until just before the event, or even at the event for the most part. When it was clear that it wasn't going to be filled with regular players.

I think that justifies blaming the community for not showing enough interest.

This whole "wait and see" mentality (and this goes for QHLAN as well) is really sickening, people check the list of attendees... Then they decide that it's too weak and they'll wait and see, and guess what happens if everyone wants to wait and see who signs up, noone signs up.

Why not if you are interested in going, show your interest by signing up? People had two months to show their interest, nothing wrong with then backing out before the event, if you for some reason can't go. Lakso did so for this event, and he let the admins know so they could find replacements. Unfortunately we didn't have anyone waiting in line, but then snapcase stepped up.

If we would have had 24 players signed up, spots would have been giving to the top players who could confirm that they were indeed going. If we would have had more, the admins would probably have increased the tournament size.

We didn't, we had 8 players out of 16 - How you can blame anyone but outselves for this I simply can't see.

JohnNy_cz wrote:
Blaming ParadokS already lost in poker in 2008 or Milton who doesn't participate even in internet duel tournaments is easy escape from the real problem, which is probably somewhere else.

Now I don't know if this is meant for me or for Andeh, but I didn't blame anyone specific, I just think that it's sad that we don't have 16 qw players interested in this kind of thing. However, I'll keep my right to blame ParadokS for waiting until I was on swedish ground, before he told me that he was gonna be a no-show for the summer event! I still love him tho, and getting Vo0 to take his place was cool as well.

Regarding Milton, I have him recorded on voice saying that he would consider going for a possible DH Summer event. But if it will then just be him and LocKtar, we aren't getting much closer a quality tournament.

JohnNy_cz wrote:
Also instead of blaming ParadokS or Milton for not coming, it'd be more constructive to ask some other players with bigger potential to come, why they didn't appear.

I don't know who to ask anymore, the reply I usually get when asking about QH and DH is "if more came", or "not enough going" etc.

Kwibus wrote:
Concerning my own feelings abou DH. I won't go... unless I was any good.

If there will be another QuakeWorld tourney at DreamHack Summer, I'll go... And I'll be more than happy if there won't be a spot for me in the tournament, meeting fellow quake players and socializing with them combined with seeing QW played on a large stage, before a big crowd is just awesome.
2009-12-02, 07:15
I agree with that guy...
2009-12-02, 15:20
Yeah, it is a good dilemma... Before people said nobody wants to run a LAN blablabla only QHLan left. Now you get an opportunity, and consistently nobody except LocKtar and his bjudfriends showup. Nabbe and Locust show up sometimes. But you know, we have more players than that. I'm not going to even beat the old milton horse. A lot more players. Check ownage.qwscene.net, etc...

The truth is, nobody really cares past the blalala. If you did, you would have made it to the past dreamhacks, like I have.
2009-12-02, 16:00
I think Milton will come, if the price is right. But if u don't actually like lans, or duel tournaments then it just needs a bit more money to be motivated enough I guess. Let's not forget that he hasn't really pariticapted in any online tournaments either, so obviously it's not really something he wants to do. For free at least.
2009-12-02, 16:14
I don't really get what's the point of your long post Zalon. If people are not motivated enough, then it should be figured out how to motivate them more.

I am saying that full 16 spots got filled in last 3 1on1 DHs, so it would be more than appropriate for DH to finally give 32 slots as a second chance. That should help in the "if more people come" department. Also it was not mentioned anywhere that the spots are reserved / invitational for top players. Or I'm dumb and blind and have overlooked it, but I think I was following all the main DH news quite closely. Did everyone else know that besides me?
2009-12-02, 16:15
As to 4on4 tournament. Sure at least for me it would be much more interesting than duels. But it's impossible to make any promises this far ahead. Usually I have other plans for summer than QW.
2009-12-02, 16:20
Also the "are you coming?" QHLan forum thread seems to do a good job, maybe next year something similar should be started for DH.
2009-12-02, 16:41
JohnNy_cz wrote:
Also the "are you coming?" QHLan forum thread seems to do a good job, maybe next year something similar should be started for DH.

Like this one?
2009-12-02, 17:18
JohnNy_cz wrote:
I don't really get what's the point of your long post Zalon.

My point was to explain that we never filled a single DH tournament, a point you clearly missed... twice.

My second point was that it was not the lack of spots that were the problem, as people had 2 months to take the 16 spots before they were given away to randoms.

JohnNy_cz wrote:
I am saying that full 16 spots got filled in last 3 1on1 DHs, so it would be more than appropriate for DH to finally give 32 slots as a second chance.

Zalon wrote:
Dunno how you got to this conclusion, I clearly stated in my post that we didn't fill ANY of the tournaments, in all the tournaments - Spots were given to randoms, as a last resort.


So they should make a 32 player tournament for 8 players? I would love to see a 32 player QW tournament, with actual QW players. But until we start showing some interest, I can't see how it can happen. If we for DH Summer have 40 people signed up, I'm sure it's gonna be a 32 player tournament.

JohnNy_cz wrote:
If people are not motivated enough, then it should be figured out how to motivate them more.

I don't know how to motivate people, when what they want is to see more people to sign up, but won't sign up themselves.

JohnNy_cz wrote:
That should help in the "if more people come" department.

Like I also wrote in my post, how can more spots help, when people are waiting for others to sign up first? Like with QHLAN, we have almost UNLIMITED spots for QHLAN, yet people still use the "if more people would go" excuse.

So as I wrote, if those interested would show their interest by signing up, instead of waiting for others to sign up first, we would have gotten really far, as then that might motivate others to sign up as well.

JohnNy_cz wrote:
I don't really get what's the point of your long post Zalon.

I don't get it either, because it doesn't seem like you've read any of it.
2009-12-19, 18:53
Ake said earlier that even getting div2 material there would be nice, and I totally agree. But to get them there I believe getting some small amount of money or products for spots 4-6 or 4-8 would motivate quite many. That way the overall quality would be better, maybe only 3-4 topplayers but it would be a lot more intersting anyways, since lots of tight games.
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