Heh.. funny. I find CMT2 a very nice map to look at and I love the textures of that map. If the RA wouldn't have been in such a lousy location the map would've been my favourite. Oh en I love the screenshots on the wall!

I find CMT4 a lousy map.. for years it's a crap map of which I can't understand why it's being played. Sure it adds other dimensions, but in a poor way.
CMT1b and CMT3 are fine maps. I don't mind it when maps require a different approach then the TB3 maps. I actually think that's a good thing.

CMT2 texture set is just inconsistent, the textures just doesn't...transfer(?) good at all. CMT4 has a boring texture set, but you do notice that the author has a feeling for how to actually place the textures.

Another good example are tiddles' maps; they aren't the most "z0mg this texture set is awesome!1!1!one!1!" but the textures are VERY well combined, so it looks good anyway.

Kalma:

learn = fun
learn = hard
competition = fun + hard

I think cmt4 plays very different compared to tb3+cmt3, CTFish some have said.

The fact that it is almost impossible to escape alive when you decide to go for quad adds for some not so easy choices to make and the team has to communicate this.

The cmt4-RA is much like the q3dm6-quad. Just because it cant be completly locked down, doesn't mean there is not strategy around taking it and denying it from the enemy. The amount of preasure your team decides to put on the RA/water area affects how easy enemy can control/take control over YA. Finding a balance between RA/YA/QUAD/LG on cmt4 is they key to the map. Compared to cmt3, dm3 or e1m2 where you run the map from the biggest armor.

Tactics differ between dm3, e1m2 and cmt3. But strategy is similar. Control the big armor to launch quad runs. The options to take over is either to win the quad-fight or sneak in thru the back door (usually when the enemy is fighting over quad).

TB3 only please. And no, it's not a matter of learning new maps for me since I have played all cmtmaps billions of times. They are just not as much fun. And fun is what the game is about Be

Was it NQR11 that had the map system whereby you voted for TB3 or TB3+2/TB3+4? Anyway I thought that was a good idea (it wasn't mine ). Clans voted for the map pool, and if 2 clans that wanted the bigger map pool were playing each other, they could use the extra maps. If one of the clans had voted TB3, you could only play on TB3.

That was a pretty good compromise, IMO. Those who wanted variety, got it, and those who wanted to play TB3 only weren't frightened away from the league by maps they didn't know, or didn't want to learn.

Yeah, I think that would be the best solution! Unfortunately my clan kinda likes the kenyas

the reasoning for a bigger mappool isn't just 'because it's fun' or 'it's a bit more diverse, so let's make it an option for a few clans'.

it's supposed to offer new players a minimum of incentive to take up this game of quake because they can play on maps where they have at least a remote chance of winning against players that have been playing for 10+ years on the same 3 maps.

that's my take at least. so don't make it 'an option' - at least not if there is no dedicated kenya tournament coming. add another map to the pool that forces old players to learn a new map. qw needs this or it won't attract any more players any longer.

There is an accepted truth in business that it is easier and cheaper to retain an existing customer than it is to gain a new one.

The same applies to QW, in many ways. With such a small player base, every effort should be made to retain the existing players by using a map pool which they want. This game is old. New players do come along, but they are rare. We are not going to see a huge influx of players just by adding a few new maps.

qw is dying. we need new players.

qw is living. we need new players.

even truer statement.

I usually don't say this but: LOL.

point well taken

Okay, let's extend the business analogy. Let's say your business was shrinking every year without fail, haemorrhaging customers at a rate 3 or 4 times that of new customer uptake. What if even your loyal remaining customers used your service far less than they used to? Do you do nothing? Do you wait for your business to collapse?

Most of the people who will compete in the top divisions aren't practicing at all. They know they can get by on old acquired knowledge of the old maps, and, because of that, all but the most motivated of teams only play a handful of non-league matches hoping to drift ahead of their opponents based purely on what they already know (This is the same reason the opt-in map pool doesn't work, because few will ever choose adversity and competition when an easier alternative is apparently just as viable). Because of this, you bring down the level of competition, with most of the teams being rusty and disinterested.

Why do you want to hang on to the conservative map pool? To keep those teams comfortable? To make sure that they don't have to actually try to compete? That's what a league is for. Competition is what makes quake interesting. If you create your competition to enable disinterest then you get an uninteresting competition.


If you cater to people who don't play, then people don't play. THAT is an accepted truth, and one that the league admins need to consider.

Looking at this discussion then this solution is probably the best solution. Ofcourse it's a compromise solution, but in the end we want to keep every player we got in qw so I think this is the best solution.

If we want more people playing this game then we need someone who promotes this game and money.

Reason most people aren't practicing is because they don't care to play so much Quake (or anything else) anymore. That has nothing to do with competition.

IIRC NQR had forced TB5 in playoffs once. It didn't lead to clans really learning the maps. Div1 finalists didn't even know where all the spawns were etc.

Yep that's right Kalma, it was NQR6. LegeArtis put in a pretty shoddy performance on CMT4 in the final vs Slackers and lost 3-1.

Dont add cmt4, that map realy sux I would like a mappoll with tb3+cmt3 and cmt1b.

we dont need new maps, 3 are enough