I have some proposals to make FTE legal in leagues like NQR etc. This is up for discussion what needs to be changed in order for it to be approved for tournament play. It would be best to get a common ruleset here so it can be considered ok not just in NQR, but in competitive playing all toghether.

FTE modification suggestions for usage in tournaments:
#1: Cap sound length to certain max limits, either do this for a predefined list (armors, ammo, weapons, health and powerups) or do it for all sound playbacks, whichever would be more secure.
#2: Cap model size to a predefined maximum/minimum and scale them down if they're too big, do this for the player/item models.
#3: Cap rotate and cl_yawspeed to prevent FRJ-scripts and 180-turning scripts.
#4: Ban /packet in case it could mean auto-delayed responses (cheat timers). Would be ok if it can only receive instant responses.
#5: Disable custom particles for the shaft to prevent straight shaft, all other particles can be modified.
#6: Implement a way to check what ruleset + anti-frj we're using (f_ruleset?)
#7: Include a check for the plugins loaded (CRC matching or something), only the released plugins can be loaded (except the IRC plugin until it's properly finished). Custom plugins can still be loaded but their API is restricted to prevent cheating.

I'll add more stuff as the discussion goes on. Hope to see many comments!

Wiki for documentation etc: http://www.fteqw.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

I see no reason why FTE could not be allowed in leagues, and yeah, it's probably time for a updated ruleset

Yeah, like instead of banning all modified models you can set some kind of limit to them in the client (I suppose "spike-models" is the banned thing about them)? And I think RJ-scripts would need another discussion for lower divs and the players with low sens who has a button to rotate 180 degrees (anti-RJ breaks their non-cheaty script).

Well.. FTE is to me an unknown-client, haven't really tried it. So i can't really comment any suggestions.
Tho, if a new client should be allowed in official leauge - it should.
#1 Have the same physics as other clients, for example ezquake
#2 Same models, modelsize, same player models etc. Passes ruleset just like other clients. Just as sounds.
#3 Blocking advanced scripts like rjscripts, movement scripts - timers.
#4 i don't care about bump maps, just like chromed wheels.


I'll add more after i've tested it. Would be great to se another client allowed tho!

#1: It's not a problem if you're talking about capping the FPS to the server max value since it's done already.
#2: Either it can just add the modification-checks from fuh/ez, but IMO if it would be possible and allowed a much cooler system would be what I proposed about sounds for example, that it caps the length of sounds you play to a certain time so you can't play any timers (which I guess is the only issue about modified sounds). This allows for more customization while still having cheat protection. Same thing could be applied for models to prevent spike-models.
#3: Would my proposal of +jump not co-existing with any movement commands solve this for rjscripts and other? And still allowing for the 180-degree turn scripts that some people use.

Edit: Cool to see an admin that takes initiative to test it out for cheats, phrenic <3

FTE \o/

Well there is also the point of volume and type of sound which affect playing. I don't think either of these is such a big issue though as qw has a certain distance sounds can be heard anyway from what I can tell, no matter how loud the actual sound is, there is an invisible wall whereafter the sound is not heard at all.

Could cap volume as well, but I don't think it's an issue since I see many playing with the high-def soundpacks out there without being called cheaters. IMO this is analogous with fullbright skins, simply more definition in the game.

What are "hull boundaries"?

Just banning +jump is not enough, because then I could put jump on one key and some rotate thing on another and press them in the same time (almost), which will be significant advantage to other clients with proper scripts blocking. Just make a switch for it and a control, I think you should just follow the way MQWCL, FuhQuake and ezQuake does, since it works just fine.

No communication with external programs is possible, noone ever showed a valid reason for such thing (only while the match is in progress - in standby mode it's ok ofc). Packet command is one of the most easy ways to do it, what's your problem with blocking it?

IMO current ruleset doesn't block enough. Atleast NQR and EQL don't allow any movement scripts, so it would be nice if clients ruleset blocked everything aswell. Why not just to block using more than one movement command or attack in same bind/alias? This would get rid of "+jump; +attack ..." and those movedown scripts too.

would be silly banning +jump;+attack as it can be done by the operating system. Also i like this command . That would be like banning "impulse 7;+attack"

There are still some leagues that want to use smackdown ruleset but also allow scripts, that's why it's not part of the ruleset and you have extra check for it.

That has already been suggested and it'd be a good way too (some ppl would be upset about +attack+jump though), but the current scheme works well I think.

Although from what I hear, ezquake doesn't block this perfectly either since some people can bypass it (I think without any external help).

The thing you touch to pick up items, which is actually a box.

Well it's either that or destroy the 180-turning scripts that some people use :/

erm? isnt scripts like 180-turn exactly what was meant to be removed with the current ruleset or am i missing something obvious?

Maybe so, but I haven't heard any bashing about those scripts.

okay. What i recall the argument for banning kfjump was that people would do perfect 180 degreeturns, instead of manually do em with the mouse, adding a bit of randomness to them. I really cant see any situation where scripted 180turn should be allowed, but kfjump not. Infact i thought scripted 'mouse movement' is banned in most leagues. But maybe i didnt read the rules careful enough.

Well in that case I have nothing more to say, capping rotation speed is the solution

I wonder though, what should be the max length of sounds? 5-10 seconds?

i think same length as the original sound? Or just some default length

If you "use the OS" or some macro program... it is scripted movement in either case. (It can be debated that +attack is not "movement", but that's another matter )



OK. Then it's bigger than the quake guy. I think all custom models should be same size or smaller than original, otherwise it's an advantage.

Yeah it would probably be a cheat to make bigger models. I'm mainly thinking of the predone model packs out there that makes them much nicer, but I think they may be a few pixels bigger than the original model size. How about scaleing them down to fit inside the original model size?

Updated the first post a little.

I just don't know any program out there you could use packet with to cheat, since the Angelina controversy settled.

You can tell it when you pickup an item and then whole team can share this info on request. Or am I missing something?

Please clarify, what program can I tell this that would spread the information? The /packet command is used for example with controlling mp3 players and irc plugins, banning it would probably piss some people off.
Btw, what is the difference between using /packet to tell teammates stuff and using Teamspeak?

an outside application could tell the whole team when something spawns (automaticly). And there is an aplication as such.